No.

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There is the controversial Dragon Rape sequence, however. I think Martin was pretty plowed when he penned that particular chapter.

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just about any UK show can be. they do things very differently there, and usually better.

I disagree, especially with humor. British humor is so dry and snarky, or else it's bizarre madcap crap that doesn't resonate with me. *shrug* Just my opinion.

/ot

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i usually prefer that to canned sitcom humor we get here in the states. even the stuff that goes over my head, at least they have the chance to go over the top.

You sure shrug a lot.

You alright?

*shrug* denotes that I am not volatile on the subsequent opinion. That being said, shrugs are an excellent shoulder workout.

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BOOK 3 MASSIVE SPOILER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Just got to the part where Robb died. What a fucking moron he turned out to be. Dude, if you don't listen to your direwolf you deserve to die you fucking idiot.

Now all I care about is what's going to happen to Grey Wolf. And arya is right outside the castle with the Hound.

Shit's really getting interesting now.

Just a shame Catelyn and so many others had to die just because Robb is the worst king in the history of kinging.

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He lost no battles except the one to keep it in his pants and marry one of the ugly Frey's. As I am re-reading this series for the 3rd time, you can also blame Edmure Tully for this happening. He told Hellman Tallhart and the garrison that Robb left at the Twins to join Roose Bolton in marching on Harrenhall. Had some Northmen still been there it would have been much more difficult to make all of the arrangements without someone thinking there was a rat.

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And it sounds like one of the Frey girls was hot (the one who married Edmure) so he blew that too.

He really turned out to be a total fucking idiot. Not balking the second Grey Wolf started freaking out near the Towers was a huge blunder on his part and not the first time he ignored his wisest counsel (his wolf).


I'm surprised the killed off Catelyn. That pretty much kills off the reunion between her and her missing children which I kinda thought was one of the main points of these books. I'm not entirely happy with Martin's decisions so far, he seems to write like he's got ADD and can't keep his focus on one story for too long before he gets bored with it and throws it away to move onto the next shiny character that catches his eye.

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That is an issue. I feel like this was the turning point to the whole series. IMO from here on out there is some good writing but no cohesive course. You are right about the wolf, the direwolves are much more intelligent than any of the Stark kids.

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then I suggest not reading this thread since its a thread about the books. There's probably a good chance you'll find people in here who are reading the books.

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I'm gonna keep reading, but I'm starting to doubt this series as a whole. I actually like conflicts to be resolved when I read a book and something tells me that might never happen here. I can understand killing Robb, but killing Catelyn seems counterproductive to the 2500 pages I read before that happened. As much as she's suffered she deserved some sort of reunion with the children she thought were dead or captive.

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Oh wait for what's coming....

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which is why I don't read this thread. I tagged my posts in case someone hasn't read as far as I have. I hope others do the same.



Just went back and read the last page of the last chapter and maybe Catelyn isn't dead after all, I guess I'll find out eventually. Or maybe her character will just cease to exist like Rickon and Osha.

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I am surprised at your like for Catelyn. I despised her throughout the books. If it wasn't for her being a dumbass and kidnapping Tyrion her whole family would be alive. She is the sole reason she is suffering. Every decision she has made has turned out to be wrong. Also keep in mind Robb is (was) 16 years old, I can only imagine what kind of epic decisions you were making at that age

Now that you know about Robb's fate, go back and read Dany's chapter in the House of the Undying more closely. It was all foreshadowed there. Also some events that haven't happened yet are described...

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I don't like Catelyn, she annoys me. But, I still want to see her get her reunion with her kids, she's suffered enough as it is. I don't blame her for kidnapping Tyrion, at the time she thought he plotted the attempt on Bran's life. Kidnapping Tyrion is not nearly as bad a blunder as marrying Jeyne, that cost Robb a good portion of his allies.

And if you really want to play the blame game, the biggest idiot of them all was Ned Stark. If he had taken the advice when Robert was on his deathbed and taken Joffrey into custody NONE of this would've happened...but that sur wou'dve made for a shitty book.

Can't really go back and read the house of the undying since I have the books on my Nook....would be too much of a pain in the ass to find the chapter. But, I knew Robb was toast because Stanis cursed him when he threw the leaches into the fire. Once Baylon Greyjoj died I knew Robb wasn't far behind. I'm assuming Joffrey is next, that should be interesting.

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martin would be laughing his ass off at the clucking hens bitching about the characters' decisions. my only problem with what happens with catelyn is...that it's a reach and a deus ex machina.

i think it makes it even more painful to know she will never re-unite with her children. if she did, that's predictable drivel that martin has done a very good job of staying away from. you never know what he's going to do, and that makes the reading more exciting.

he just needs to get back on track with book 6 because there was too much fodder in DWD.

Fodder, eh Zack? You just cannot grasp the complex subtleties of cevasse.

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Back off, Warchild. Seriously.

i'll cevasse you.

Just finished Crows. Picking up Dragons from the mall today and shit will get crackin'.

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Finished book 3 yesterday, started book 4 today. Already not happy with the first chapter. Really, do we really need to read about what's happening on Pyke? Who gives a fuck! With all the cliffhangers at the end of book 3 the last thing I wanted was to go to Pyke and go back in the past while we're at it.

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Great

And I imagine there will be a bunch of cliffhangers at the end of book 5 that won't be addressed for 7 years when book 6 comes out which will also have cliffhangers that won't be addressed for 10 years after that when a bunch of fans get together in the wake of GRRM's death and finish the books via fan fiction.

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Good, it better be big or else how are you going to remember it 7 years from now when its resolved.

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Question: In the grand scheme of things, how important are the chapters surrounding Dorne and the Ironmen in book 4? Can they be skipped/skimmed? Cause they really suck and I don't care about any of the characters except Asha.

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you're gonna be skimmin a lot of book 5 then too.

I actually found the dornish chapters very refreshing. It's a cool untapped perspective and the characters there were pretty interesting.

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Dorne chapters were some of my favorites. Doran Martell drops a lot of knowledge if you read carefully. Plus the Sand Snakes are durty naughtys.

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+1

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