Crazy talk? I remember the way parks were regarded. A few thousand people saw Ernie hit his 500th. Nobody ever said Wrigley was a great park in the 70s. And it was the same damn building it is now. Fenway was considered a miserable hellhole. What do you think changed? Certainly not the structures.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Probably to some degree. The same guy waxes poetic about the same park in his book, Lake Effect. It seems to me that the park never changes. The thing that changes is the people, where they are in their lives, and how they feel about it at a given time.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

It's crazy to say that they were "the two shittiest ones". Especially if you are including as recently as the '70's

All of the cookie-cutters sucked. That thing in Cleveland was worse than all of those. Did you see the thing the Blue Jays used to play in? Old Comiskey was bad. How about the LA Coliseum? The Astrodome, while unique, was widely panned. I could keep going.

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I'm not talking about the so-called "cookie cutter" multi-purpose stadiums. I mean the old vintage parks, Crosley, Ebbets, Sportsman's, Shibe, Comiskey, Forbes.

Personally, I was never a big fan of Old Comiskey either so this isn't a Sox-Cubs thing. I never thought about the park. It was just a place I had a lot of good times. I wasn't particularly sorry to see it go. But the fact is that ballpark was considered leagues beyond Wrigley and Fenway when it was built and all the way up until it was gone. But people didn't fetishize ballparks the way they do now. It used to be just the place where your team played. Now it's a reason to attend a game.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

The only reason people need to use public transportation to get to Wrigley is because there is no parking there.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

I'm guessing most people with strong opinions on it actually attend very few games and would attend very few wherever they played.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

You know what, you bring up a very good point, Mini-Ditka.

Now you've done it.

Arlington Heights is right by the Metra. What percentage of Cubs fans are actually from the city anyhow? Can you imagine the stupid ticket brokers camping out in Arlington Heights to buy tickets to resell for the season?

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

A considerable percentage, I'm sure. Chicago is a big city with lots of people in it!

Arlington Heights is on the Metra, yes, but if you're not on the northwest line, you have to go all the way into the West Loop on one line and back out on another, which is stupid and time-consuming and defeats the purpose of public transit as a comparatively relaxing and cost-effective alternative to driving someplace stressful, i.e. a place where 40,000 people are going. New Lenox is on the Metra. Shall we build a ballpark there?

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How many people take public transportation to Sox games?

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

I don't know. I don't really concern myself with the White Sox. Probably many, if so many Sox fans live in the city and don't have to pay for parking.

More people should take public transportation to games. It's smarter.

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Who wants to ride the Red Line at night?

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Lots of people.

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There are many more fans that drive than take public transportation. It's not like Wrigleyville where people are going to hang around after the game and soak in the neighborhood.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Isn't that happening now though? Why are the Cubs seeing declining attendance now?

The thing is that the Cubs could become an economic powerhouse like the Yankees with a completely new stadium. More seats + private suites - the loss of the share they don't get for the rooftops + rent for a Cubs village + all the advertising they want anywhere they want + parking would be massive. Of course, some of that would have to go to other investors, and some of that would go to the city they now play in, but the Cubs could happily screw over any city they wanted in this. Add in a CUBS network and we are talking about being the Yankees of the NL.

The whole plan would rely on how many Cubs fans would give up on the Cubs because they now play in a new park. What are they going to do? Are they going to become White Sox fans and go to the South Side to avoid taking an express train from the Loop directly to the stadium?

Finally, if Wrigley Field is the only reason that the Cubs attendance isn't "Marlinesque" then the Cubs fan base isn't that good and my calculations are way off and a suburban stadium would fail. I guess Curious Hair buys into the "Cubs attendance is only good because of the park" crowd.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Parking is easily found if you're willing to walk a few blocks. (like 6)

wrigley does need to be torn down...if you rehab it will suck...like soldier field.... and the red line is the best line to ride..it is almost always on time and runs every 6 minutes 24/7...

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Blow it up. Rebuild a new stadium on the same site with some things carried over from Wrigley and new amenities


In the year of construction split your games between the Cell and Miller Park




Or just wait for it to fall down

They're not going to become an economic powerhouse by moving out to the suburbs when there's another team ten minutes from downtown in a rapidly gentrifying area that would quite likely begin siphoning off corporate accounts.

It's not that people will stop being Cub fans. It's that a lot of them will stop going to as many games. The family guy in the northwest suburbs just isn't going to make as many games as the guy two years out of Zeta Beta Tau who lives on the corner of Grace and Clifton. And that guys gets replaced every few years by another guy just like him. And I guarantee Japanese tourists in town for conventions aren't going to be rushing out to see the Schaumburg Cubs.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

There are a lot of businesses in the suburbs too, and the fact is that at Wrigley they can't really cater to corporate accounts well anyways.
Are they going to Bulls or Blackhawks games? Those two seem to do just fine without selling a stadium as the #1 attraction.

This is as much about the money left on the table at Wrigley. From the rooftops, to the lack of advertising, to the naming rights, to a lack of "luxury seats", to a lot of added revenue by having a piece of Cubs village the Cubs give up a ton of money.

It would be pretty sad if the only thing keeping the Cubs from being a financial catastrophe is that they have an older ballpark that people who don't care about the Cubs want to go to. Some people seem to think the Cubs couldn't work outside of Wrigley Field.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You guys are immersed in Cubs business

There aren't alternatives to the Bulls and Blackhawks. You seem to think the Cubs sell all those corporate season tickets because they're the Cubs rather than the actual reason: that people like to go sit in the sunshine at beautiful antique Wrigley Field.

I think you're vastly overestimating the number of hardcore Cub fans that actually attend games. I doubt it's that much greater than what the Sox have. The Cubs make hay with the casual fan and those who want to go to beautiful Wrigley Field. Maybe we'll get a chance to see how it really works.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Why would they go to the White Sox then? New Wrigley Field would likely be more beautiful than the Cell and many of those corporations aren't headquartered downtown.

I can't argue with this. I may be overestimating how good the Cubs fanbase is. Anyone who says the Cubs should stay in Wrigley because Cubs fans can't fill the ballpark is not going to get an argument from me.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Thats how I always figured it. Both teams probably draw 15-20K real fans and the other 15 or so have to be sold by "Wrigley Baseball" "Half price Mondays" "Actual contending team"

Well, assuming the beauty of a stadium that doesn't yet exist is a leap, but I'll allow it.

I think there is a two-pronged answer to this. The real power players that are being entertained probably enjoy going to dinner downtown and staying at a downtown hotel and Sox Park is just going to be more convenient. Then there are the people that just get a shot at the seats once or twice a year because nobody is using them. Lower level sales guys using them for clients- or pretending to use them for clients and taken their drunken buddies. I have to think there will be less of a scramble among those people to get tickets to Schaumburg Field. At first they'll already be bought, but I think it will become very easy for a guy making the call to say, "Can we spend that entertainment money better?"

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I know we've had conversations here about what makes a fan. It can get really silly. But I'll probably make 5 or 6 games at Wrigley this season and I'd guess that's more than most guys who consider themselves "diehard Cubs fans".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

As much as I like US Cellular, I don't think beautiful is a good description for it.
I'm only a normal guy, but all the corporate tickets I've ever gotten have been "Pick up 4 tickets at will call and have fun. Save the stubs and give them back to me". Also, I think the corporations would simply enjoy the better suites and amenities of a new stadium and many of the corporations in that area would probably enjoy easier access and parking(I know, parking is super easy at Wrigley).

I just see a Wrigleytown where the Cubs get a piece of all apartments, hotels, restaurants, bars, stores, parking and upgraded premium seating options and I don't see how the Cubs can't equal the Yankees in terms of money generated. Add in a Cubs network and they would simply outspend every other NL team.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't know. It's possible you're right, I tend to think they'd just be another bad baseball team playing in a big suburban park with a lot of empty seats. We may get the chance to find out at some point.

I'm pretty sure that Tom Ricketts sees it the way I do, but I'd guess Big Joe doesn't and is likely pressuring his kid. We really won't know if the goose was golden until it's dead.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Was watching a movie the other day and it reminded me or something...

Anybody know-- without looking it up-- what the first night baseball game played in Wrigley was? Here's a hint, it wasn't in 1988.

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