The Cubs have burned through coaches and management who have had great success elsewhere including Mc Phail, Pinella and Baker. Each successive failure I have gotten the sense that fandom is drawing more distant from this team. I think a Theo failure will be the final straw and the days of 10K attendance will return which would result in the Ricketts going bankrupt on this team.

Don't worry, I will welcome you with open arms into the Cell when that happens

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Good post, Boilermaker Frank.

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Yeah he was trying pretty hard but I think his bait is bad.

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Cubs will blow up and all life will be lost.

People seeking reprieve from a poorly managed organization with sleazy ownership and attendance issues would certainly flock to the White Sox.

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The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

We know there are always plenty of seats available.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I had to laugh.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

In all seriousness, here is what could happen. First, Svuem gets fired. I think this happens about four years from now. About 2-4 years after this, I think you will see both Hoyer and Epstein get the ax. The team only makes the playoffs once during his tenure.

These guys are in over their head, from Ricketts on down. They will never admit it, of course. I hope I am wrong, but the aftermath would be brutal.

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They lost just fine before Theo, they'll be fine.

CLH,
You paint a very real scenario. That's why I don't beleive in throwing seasons away.
Winning is all that matters. He should have picked up more veteran hitters instead of just flushing a season down the toilet. I want a rebuild,but if you don't have the rookies to plug holes,go out and get some mid-level vets that will not break the bank.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

There is no reason to even contemplate this right now. Meatlball dolphin is just doing his thing around here.

Let this thing play out a 2-3 years and see where they stand. If things are still bad there will be plenty of time to bitch and decide what to do then.

Anyone that did not know this team was going to suck this year was not paying attention. Don't start looking for ledges a couple months into a total rebuild. And don't let meatball Sox fans direct you to a ledge yet either. They are just trying to distract from the shortcomings on their own side of town.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

RFDC,
You are correct,but just a couple of real hitters in this lineup might have made a difference. LaHair is coming back to earth because nobody is really afraid of who is behind him (Soriano) so they pitch him garbage. Two good hitters could have given 2 or 3 more guys better seasons. Chain reaction.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Say no more Jimmy, say no more.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I understand that we need to wait and see and I understand they were not going to be good this year (and likely next). The challenge continues to be that this team just doesnt have the connections and system to funnel players up. Ricketts can print all the books he wants about what Cubs baseball means, but you need to have a source for pitching talent and some offensive talent. The Cubs have never really had that.

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The have not had that because they have never rebuilt the right way. That is what Theo and Co are trying to change from the ground up. Ricketts really has nothing to do with this. He has made the best move he can by turning the reins over to Theo.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Right. And I have heard this before. Ricketts has everything to do with this. He is the one that wants to match the Boston model and has gone as far as to hire away one of the drivers for it. Theo had a carte blanche for spending on free agents and made a few massive mistakes. Ricketts can't take many of these mistakes on because of how deep in debt is currently is on the team. I am just a cynical asshole when it comes to this team and dont trust anyone to be able to win a world series. I will be wrong at some point.

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Cubs right now are at rock bottom. It had to get to this point to rebuild. Now quit fucking around and build the thing the right way. From the minor leauge level to the top. I believe this is their plan. If it fails so be it but they have never done it the right way before. Give Theo and crew a little time to rebuild the dirt shithouse that the Hendry dream team envisioned. Look at the pile of crap that was left. Who thought this group of goofs would be any better than they are? They blow goats and that is a disservice to all the great dairy producers whose goat milk is quite tasty. Want a new 300 million dollars for a new stadium? Put out a good team every 200 years. One might help.

How many more of these threads can we expect? The Cubs were always going to be this bad this season. It amazes me that anyone even bothers to get upset over it anymore.

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I cant speak for people that didnt realize the Cubs would be very bad this year (and next). My problem is the long-term vision is risky with an organization that has not been able to funnel consistent, major-league ready position players from their farm system. Theriot, Castro, Patterson (for two years) and Grace are far outweighed by the rest of the slop that was fed us in the past twenty or so years I have watched the Cubs. This is probably more on the fault of sports radio and me to not read more in depth, but I need to know what they are doing to make the organization changes necessary to meet their vision. Passing around books of "the Cubs Way" to players on the farm system doesnt help the players learn fundamentals and how to win. Who are the coaches? Are they using sabermetrics up and down the organization? Are players being taught defensive positioning based on statistics from the start? When will we see the fruit of this labor? Two years? Ten years? I remember Wilkin saying that it takes about 3 years for a player to go from draft to major-league ready. If I go on his opinion, I have to wait until 2015 to start judging the Epstein and Hoyer era. I don't mind doing that, but many fans are going to be angered.

RFDC, I will admit I could be totally wrong taking a position of extreme pessimism, but given what I am hearing to date I don't feel comfortable yet taking a more optimistic vantage. That pessimism has built up over the years and has little to do with the performance this season and next season. All I need to start hearing is the improvements that are happening in the organization struture, not the latest political strife of the Ricketts; though, I realize that strife is connected to payroll.

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i think peter venkman had a quote about it (as he often does) something about dogs and cats living together.

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They need to take a serious look at their minor league pitching coordinator. No one that comes up can hit a barn. The control these pitchers have is terrible. I hope Theo makes significant changes in the minor league coaching staffs this offseason. Go and raid the Dodgers, Angels, Cardinals and Rays minor league systems. Get their instructors and get rid of the guys that have been around for years.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

pinella was the exact same guy here he was in tampa..bad..old and dumb/lazy...dusty took the tea far and maxed out the potential...mcphail was a failure...he got lucky in minnesota and over time was exposed as being just that..lucky...this team will runt his division in 3 years...the central is weak and the cubs will have the largest payroll in the division...big fish/small pond ...with a few young productive minor leaguers from the farm system it really is not that difficult.

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Agree. Hendry did have a few serviceable pitchers come through the ranks. Wuertz, Wellmeyer, Marmol. Past that, it gets pretty ugly. Even if they dont get talent from the farm system, if you can find out what Cooper is doing to resurrect pitching careers, it might be a better route.

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We don't really have any reason to assume Theo will fail. he's had a history of successful drafts in Boston. He has not had a single draft yet here and people are getting all crazy about how bad things are. If you didn't know this was going to be a bad season, shame on you. Next season will be bad too. Perhaps the season after next as well. Theo and Jed need to have 3 drafts and make trades for veterans like Dempster, perhaps Garza, Soto, Reed Johnson, and LaHair too. LaHair is an awful outfielder and if he can bring a good prospect in return, it would be smart to deal the 29 year old about the time Rizzo is brought up. It's all about stocking up with top prospects and developing them. I realize it's hard for a fandom that has waited over 103 years for a championship to manufacture more patience, but it's gonna be required. Better to be awful for a couple years and get the very best draft choices, than to be mediocre and get lesser players in the draft. The suffering we endure now, will pay off in a few years. In the meantime, play more golf, do more fishing and give Theo and Jed the time needed to turn things around.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Well said on all points.

To help with the painful process of enduring 1-3 years of piss poor baseball diarrhea, here's a fun gif that represents the 2012 Cubs season:

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I don't know if it's fair to just say "We knew they'd be bad". It's because they chose to be bad. They only have 1 bad contract(and even he is just overpaid but not a terrible player).

In 2010, the Cubs were willing to spend $146 million. In 2011, the Cubs were willing to spend $125 million. In 2012, they are spending $88 million, and that may actually go down before the trade deadline. Of course they'll be bad. I'm sure if the Red Sox cut payroll by nearly 50% over 2 years they'd be horrible too.

They've chosen to be bad, which means I don't think it's fair to say they need 3 drafts to fix this problem. If they are 15th in payroll for the next 3 years I'd be mad as a Cubs fan.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Just presenting the alternative. If they paid Ramirez (hitting .238) and Zambrano OR invested heavily in Fielder or Pujols OR went for a few decent free agents at 7 mil a pop, the payroll goes up, but does production go up? I don't think you fix Marmol. I don't know what the pitching staff would look like, granted it has been surprisingly decent as far as the starters go. So, if they chose to try to be good, I think it would have turned out slightly less worse than it will with the present team. I think. Definitely if you signed one of the two free agents you would have been better.

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What are you going to get for Geo Soto, Reed Mantle, or Babe LaHair ? Open the windows when you paint, Steve-O.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way