What are you going to get for Geo Soto, Reed Mantle, or Babe LaHair ? Open the windows when you paint, Steve-O.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

The Theo hire reminded me when they hired Larry Himes. we all know how that went.

I haven't followed baseball this year but checked the standings yesterday and WOW Last place and lost 11 in a row. I had to chuckle same typical Cubs.

the only way this organization wins is by accident. They never plan for the future, their farm system is F'd up for the last 50 years. And like many others, I am really sick and tired of Wrigley.

Thanks for those solid contributions to this thread Hawaii. I can see why the Theo hire reminds you of Himes. Those championships Himes lead the Sox to in the late 1980s were amazing.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I think it's very fair to say that I knew they would be bad. I stated as much many times before the season began. But I'm good with it, because they need to be bad to get a top draft pick. You get picks like A-Rod and Strasburg with the #1 overall pick. Hell, the last time the Cubs had the overall #1 was when they drafted Dunston. They could have had Doc Gooden, but took the guy with the better arm . The point is, they can get real difference makers if they pick at the top of the draft. If they pick in the middle of the pack, they are more likely to get a good player, but not a difference maker. It's tough to watch a bad team while it suffers through a few losing seasons, but it can pay off. Look at how bad the Rays were and how good they became after drafting with high picks. Of course, the key is to use those picks wisely and thats why Theo and Jed are key. they are trusted to do as they have in Boston and draft well. They are also going to be trusted to trade pieces they do not see as long term componants to the team, to aquire good prospects that may fit into those long term plans. Will guys like Reed Johnson, or Bryan LaHair bring the kind of prospects that Dempster or Garza would?-of course not. Garza and Dempster should bring AA or AAA prospects that are highly rated major league prospects. Guys like Johnson or Soto will bring lower level prospects that MAY pan out. Again, the scouts Theo and Jed have looking over these prospects and their assessment of their abilities are key. LaHair is a guy without a position. Rizzo will be taking over at 1st soon and he's an awful outfielder. He needs to go to a club that needs a 1st baseman or DH. Lets hope he gets back to hitting better so he might bring a better prospect in a deal.

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Go Cubs!!!!

You clearly didn't understand my post. Everyone could see the Cubs being bad this year.

I'm saying that the Cubs shouldn't be given a pass because they are "rebuilding" when they have in reality just slashed payroll as much as possible and used the Theo excuse to placate fans for the next 2-3 years. It's not that moves haven't worked out. It's that they have intentionally cut payroll and went with cheap players.

This rebuilding project was a choice. They could have went younger while still paying what would be expected for the dominant baseball team in one of the biggest markets in the country. Instead, they are acting like the Royals who basically have to pay no one for a few years to save money.

It just doesn't seem what the Yankees or Red Sox would do, and that is who they want to model themselves as.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You get that a lot and should just expect it by now. And I dont mean that in a swarmy, assholic manner.



Again, given the free agent market last offseason, what would you have expected had they resigned any or all of the following: Ramirez, Pujols, Fielder, Zambrano. I can't see giving Fielder that kind of money. He is a large player and will likely see his skills diminish quickly. Pujols I could see giving that money, but then if you don't feel you can compete for the next three years, aren't you just signing a guy to placate the fans? Isnt that a total of waste of money which would be scrutinized with some small similarities to the Soriano deal?



This is one of Ricketts faults. He does keep saying this will be the Boston model and the Boston model did include signing big number free agents for big money. There is no denying this. What I fear is he wants to be more Oakland A's style and trying to win with a lower payroll and analytics. What I really fear is that he just wants to have a ballclub that will compete and make the playoffs on a semi-consistent basis knowing full well it would cost to much to win a World Series.

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I don't think they want to model themselves after the Yankees and Red Sox as much as the Rays. It was made clear when Theo took over that they were going to build from the draft. Identifying good young talent, drafting and trading for it and developing that talent is what it's all about. It's gonna take time. Having very high draft choices only comes from having an awful season. But those kinds of picks will be instrumental in building a team that can contend in a few years.

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Go Cubs!!!!

HUH?

Ricketts first interview:

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Theo was hired to recreate what he did in Boston.

The dominant team in a market like Chicago shouldn't be emulating the Rays.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's a good point. It may not have been a good year to buy your way into more wins.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the off-season. I'd be mad if I was a Cubs fan and payroll didn't go up fairly quickly.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Im not one to point out the general hypocrisy of sports fans like RFDC frequently points out, but there is no question in my mind, that if this team had bought a few FA's there would be several threads bemoaning the Cubs refusal to go with the full rebuild.

I expect them to get better next year, and be ready to make a run to at least get in the post season the year after.

Conventional wisdom says that you cant half rebuild. You either are or you arent. I tend to agree with that.

As bad as they seem, they have a handful of good players and they arent as far away as some might think.

Add a couple FA's and a couple guys from the system and you have a decent team.


I cant believe dolphin successfully trolled all you guys ON MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND.

Good to have you on board RPB.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Of course you can. The Yankees, Red Sox, and other big market teams do it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Rebuilding and Reloading are two separate things, Richard.

Its a lot different building a winner starting with a 57 win team vs. a team that won 92 games the year before.


I think it can be done, but if you try and win and rebuild at the same time I think more times than not you'll fail at both.

I think the way this Cub team was called for a full rebuild

No they arent. Thats a silly thing to say. They are on such different financial levels the comparison is bad.


Wanting something doesn't make it so. The Phillies might be a better comparison. There payroll dipped when Rollins, Utley and Howard were young only to raise it as they won a WS.

This is like complaining the that Heat dumped salary/underspent to get the big name free ajents last year. If they are essentially planning on losing for a couple years, I'm supposed to be upset if they spend less money to do it? Ok. Good thought.


Lotsa bad Sox thoughts in this thread.

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Well, the NBA has a salary cap, but I also don't think the Heat cut payroll by nearly 50% in 2 years either.

I guess instead of saying "We knew they'd be bad" that it should be said that "The Cubs want to be bad".

I guess what I don't get is why people are acting like this was just a natural thing that happened. The Cubs made a conscious decision to drastically cut payroll, and likely will cut more during the season.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Hendry and the Cubs spend too much money and have no plan they sure are a bunch of idiots.

Theo and the Cubs cut spending and have a plan they sure are a bunch of idiots.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Hendry had a team win 97 games. When do you think a Theo Cub team will win 97?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

And Theo has been the GM of 2 World Series champions. Neither fact has anything to do with what is going on with the Cubs right now.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Intentionally tanking a year or two and getting one or two top picks (assuming you can even identify them) isn't a good strategy for building long-term success. And if they're not careful, they may see a cultural shift where the Cubs and Wrigley lose their appeal.

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Then you are the White Sox in the late 90's and early 00's.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

And no one wants that.

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Sure they should. Emulating a wiser manner in which to operate makes plenty of sense. Emulating a business model that includes mass overspending on free agents does not. Some free agents will be signed when the team has developed enough good players via the draft and through trades and is just a couple players away from contending (as long as those players signed do not block the path of budding stars in the minor leagues). But to depend on free agency to restock a team continually is bad business. The Yankees and Red Sox get far less for their dollars spent on payroll than the Rays. The Rays are the better organization to emulate.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Theo will have one year where the shit just sticks and they make a run with a mediocre team. My guess 2014 or 2015.

You missed the point. Himes didnt win w the sox but at the time he made them contenders and was considered the genius of baseball. Just like Theo was when the Cubs hired him.

But of course during those years you were probably watching Barney the Dinosaur on TV and eating shit out of your diaper so I thought It would be beneficial for me to clear things up for you.

He was? I thought Green was the genius of his time? He didnt in anything with the Cubs, but those Yankees team that Steinbrenner bought were damned good. Himes drafted some damned good players for the Sox, but one has to wonder how the genius of baseball was fired by the Sox.

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To be accurate, total payroll is $110 million. $88 million of that is being paid to the players on the current roster. The remaining $22 million is being paid to Zambrano, Byrd, and Silva. But I concede the point about the Red Sox cutting payroll would make them worse.

I also agree that they will need to open the checkbook in the next 1 to 2 off-seasons.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/freeagents/_/type/dollars

Not sure who the Cubs were supposed to spend money on last offseason. The big money guys on that list are mostly either old, overpaid, or at positions the Cubs didn't need.

• I don't think spending $200 million on a fat or old first baseman is worth it.

• Yu Darvish would have been nice, but that salary number doesn't include the $50mill the Rangers paid just for the right to negotiate with him.

• I like Jose Reyes, but Cubs already have Castro.

• Michael Cuddyer and Jason Kubel are alright, but at corner outfield positions, they're not adding any more wins than Soriano and DeJesus are giving you.

• Jonathan Papelbon is good, but you don't spend $50mill on a closer when your team isn't going to be in that many save situations.

• I probably would have taken the $5mill gamble on Grady Sizemore, but he was already injured in the offseason, so he wasn't going to have an impact this year.

• That leaves CJ Wilson as the only impact player that I think would have been a valuable signing that could also make sense for the Cubs.