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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
One of my friends told me to try The Name of the Wind.


Lots of fart jokes here... :P

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:22 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
i'd rather read lovecraft or matheson than either of them.


Lovecraft is awesome but sometimes you don't feel like reading MPHWANTHGTHASW and period prose.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:22 pm 
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Bump for Panther to put his spoiler in.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:31 am 
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well...the title of the series itself gives that away. fire and ice.


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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:47 am 
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I think they are setting Jon up to be Azor Azai reborn. The Melisandre chapter early in Dance pretty much outlined exactly what would happen to Jon at the end. Also I am in the camp that thinks Jon is the offspring of Lyanna and Rhaegar. Thats the whole reason Robert started the rebellion, so he could kill Rhaegar.

The dragon has 3 heads - Jon, Dany, and now Aegon (which I still think is bullshit :x )

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:47 am 
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The Aegon story is a right pile of shit. More lazy writing from Martin. Just like Varys becoming super spy assassin at the end of Dance.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Yeah he's probably Azor Azai. It's obvious he warged in to his wolf. Why have the prologue of the book about a warging dude? I thought it would be amusing to have him use Stannis' body when he returned as Azor Azai and it would make sense with Melisandre always seeing Stannis as the promised one. A nice cruel fate for Stannis and the world is saved by a guy everyone hates.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:43 pm 
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That makes zero sense.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Azor_Ahai/Theories

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Huh. It'd be a stretch, but not as out there as it appears upon first glance.

That'd be interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:02 pm 
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Just finished it. Tremendous cocktease, but otherwise it was yet another book that took way too long to set the table for nothing. At least until the next book, which is, in my opinion, bad writing. Or brilliant, I can't decide.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Dewskie wrote:
Just finished it. Tremendous cocktease, but otherwise it was yet another book that took way too long to set the table for nothing. At least until the next book, which is, in my opinion, bad writing. Or brilliant, I can't decide.


Bad writing. What happened in Mereen that was so difficult to convey that he belabored over it for 10 years? And had to have a Barristan one off chapter to "wrap it up". Hot garbage.

The guy from the Iron Bank of Braavos can just traipse around the north in the middle of winter and find people??? Lazy writing.

Don't even get me started on Aegon. :x

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:02 pm 
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Aegon didn't bother me.

Meereen is an abomination that hopefully the show avoids altogether.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Aegon didn't bother me.


Deus Ex Machina

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Oh definitely.

But it didn't bother me.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:54 pm 
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What drives me fucking nuts is that he proved with Storm of Swords that he can make the wait pay off, and that he CAN write. Hell even book 4 had some really fantastic moments in the development of Jaime and the downfall of Cersei. But in Dragons, he just unloads this entire wagon of new shit.

Mereen was fascinating at first and it was refreshing to read that Dany wanted to stop moving for awhile, but then...you have her fall in love with a pirate, marry a slaver for politics, tell Jorah to fuck off, chain away her dragons, and try to help prevent a disease from entering the city.

BTW, none of the previous sentence makes for exciting reading. It makes for building frustration that become exponentially greater when I realize there's not going to be any semblance of a payoff for years.

Just when shit finally starts to happen in Mereen it's so late in the game that I know I'm going to get fucked over. We have all those dull as fuck Quentyn Martell chapters peppered throughout and it made me happy to know that he was burned to death, but why make me read all that shit just to have him die so irrelevantly? At least Jon Snow has resurrection/warg possibilities, but it was no more enjoyable reading about his tragic Caesar-like assassination.

The exciting conclusion was a monstrous chapter about Dany getting diarrhea, starving, and talking to the grass. Wow, great stuff there, George. Then the prologue, oh boy what could it be!?

Kevan Lannister takes part in a tediously boring council meeting then gets harpooned by Varys, who goes on a Dr. Evil-esque rant about his intentions.

http://0.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/56/33/c ... 976f7b.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:37 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
Finally.

This one took the longest to read. Several...several reasons. First, let me point out some things from that review that this thread started with:

Quote:
I couldn't put it down. Late at night, into the wee hours, I would tell myself: just one more chapter, and then, again and again, break my own vow. I was like a hospital patient who keeps clicking on the morphine feed, a binge reader addicted to Martin crack. I was lucky my children were out of town, or I would have been feeding them stale potato chips and allowing them unlimited screen time. I was Martin's bitch.


I could not disagree more with this. This book, to me, was littered with fits and starts. EVERY time things got going, we wound up at court with Dany again. There are chapters that literally go nowhere. One more chapter? How about, maybe tomorrow I'll pick this book up and something will HAPPEN. There were 3 points in this book that I started to question my loyalty to the series.

Now, a lot of readers thought that way about "Feast". I thought "Feast" was at least entertaining. It was full of amusing little characters and backstabbing. Cersei vs. Margaery was entertaining. And it was about 300 pages shorter than this.


Quote:
He's baaaack.


Was this reviewer paid by Martin's publicist? He's back? To what, running his readers in circles? Say what you want about JK Rowling, RR, she at least kept her pace with *her* seven books.

You've got a big audience. You have a TV show now. You have a fucking obligation to see this series through. ENOUGH ABOUT THE GODDAMN SLAVERS! Every time I got to her chapters, I rolled my eyes. Here we go again...and again...and again.

Now, I still overall think the book is well written and it's got plenty of Martin's signature style and his regular characters are given plenty of life to breathe. But good Lord did he have to include POV's for every one of these characters? The Kingbreaker, The Queen's Hand...it got out of hand toward the end of this book, when I was really hoping things would start to HAPPEN.

Then what did happen annoyed me more than upset me. Is Jon Snow dead? I can just feel fanboy nation crying out. Well, we don't know...we can only speculate...for God knows how long. I'm pretty sure that ref's got the right of it. Besides, there is a concensus that Snow and Dany represent Ice and Fire, so how can Snow just die?

I really believe when this series is all said and done, that this one will be one of the hardest to get through for a reader who is trying to get through them all at once. This was 3 bitches and a bastard, Martin? You said a mouthful. Did you try reading what you wrote before you sent it to the publisher?

The meandering is obnoxious. This really DID feel like filler. I just don't care enough about Dornish history I guess.

Things I did like...

obviously, Tyrion.

Selmy. I've always liked him. Tormund. And I love Val.

I think the Reek chapters were some of my favorite. This is classic Martin. He's the author equivalent to dog's nose shoved in shit. You don't like the smell? (reek reek it rhymes with bleak) KEEP READING, ASSHOLE. I like that about him. And, it makes you really torn about how you feel about Theon.

So, this book was tough. It took me 7 weeks to finish reading. It was about as long as "Storm" and it took me 2 weeks longer to finish reading.

I think Martin better have a manuscript ready in the next year or so though...because now the clock is ticking if the HBO show continues. And it's time to get the story moving again. Books 4 and 5 were enough stand still. We need another "Storm"...the drought is a wasteland.


re-quoted so dewskie can read my thoughts on the book. :bom:


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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Thanks, w_z, great read! I agree with most of that, especially that this book has replaced "Clash of Kings" as the worst book in the series for me. Your most accurate point was "fits and starts" (not to be confused with "tits and farts," which were in there too). Things would pace like action was just around the corner only to have it yanked from under our feet.

I was hoping that it would be in the same vein of Clash of Kings where we would suffer through tedious chapters of strategy and council as the pieces made their way across the board before ultimately getting a battle, only (as you said) Martin got too long-winded/lazy/bored and decided to fuck over his audience and make them wait for book 6. Honestly who does that?

Here's the latest interview with GRRM worth a shit, and what he says about some of this:

Quote:
When fans complain about a character killed off, what do you say to them?

In some cases I sympathize. It’s hard to kill characters, they’re my children. Obviously some were marked for death in the beginning like Ned. There are plenty of books out there for fans who want comfort reading, who want to enjoy an exciting story with nothing to upset or disturb them. It’s fun to go to an Indiana Jones movie and watch him kill 40 Nazis, but there’s a place for Schindler’s List too. Schindler’s heroism resonates more with me than Indy’s — one is fun, but the other is profound and says something about human nature. I don’t know if I’m achieving it, but that’s what I’m striving for. I think fantasy after Tolkien had become Indiana Jones. They were imitating a lot of Tolkien’s tropes without capturing the spirit of Tolkien. His books are not all happy fun books.

Do you feel like you owe your fans anything? At end of the day, is there a responsibility?

I think owe is the wrong word. I try to give them a good story. And I like my fans — the vast majority are great. I probably have more interaction with fans than any author I know. By and large, I’m very nice to my fans. But I don’t owe it to them to be nice. And if I wanted to withdraw, that would be my right. I certainly believe it’s my right to take off Sundays and watch NFL football and go to conventions and work on other projects — the more hardcore trolls, that’s what they object to. You met [his assistant] Ty, he think it’s generational. That people who are angry [about Book 5 taking six years] are younger people from what he calls The Entitlement Generation. They want instant gratification — something that they’re used to from the Internet. I’m from the Baby Boomer generation, and we had to wait for s–t, man. If I heard about a book, it might never come to the spinner rack at the local drugstore. If I wanted to see a movie, we’d have to hope they’d show it on television at some time. It’s Ty’s theory, not mine, but maybe it’s true.

You intended the story in Book 5 to go further, I hear?

It’s always difficult to know where to break each book. You’re walking a fine line. Like Lord of the Rings, you’re writing one story. At the same time, I want each book to represent a phase of the journey. I try to end each character with a cliffhanger or some kind of resolution. And I try to make the cliffhangers the smaller portion — I don’t want eight cliffhangers. [Dance] had more cliffhangers than I ideally would have liked.


I think he misses the point with his answer on "owing the fans," that's not it at all - he owes the consumer a story worth $40+ and weeks of reading a sound plot structure. When you give them 74% of a basic story structure, then say, "haha, fuck you, you can read the end in 4 or 5 years," that's not about fans being entitled trolls.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:56 pm 
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This guy calling other people trolls makes me laugh.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:00 pm 
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boy am i with you on the "clash of kings" comparison. that was my least favorite book as well until i read DWD. i just don't like writers that pass off their cliffhangers as anything more than lazy writing. sure, i like cliffhangers...but when you continuously use them it starts to show that you just don't really know where you want your story to go.

this happened in "lost" a lot...it was very apparent that they started making shit up as they went along, and DWD is full of that.

i agree with you on what he "owes"...here's the thing. we don't live in a world where we get together and you tell us a story. we (honorable) people pay you to tell us stories. and above that, you have an obligation to yourself, over anyone, to satisfy your own story. forget about your fans, if YOU read what you've written so far...are you feeling like you're resolving your story? it's the old siskel test with actors. would you pay to go see your own movie. and i think if martin read DWD as a fan, he'd understand where we're coming from.

obviously as a writer, it's a mess of shit in your head that you've got to wrangle and harness and turn into something coherent. but readers aren't interested in how many "bitches" it took to write the book, they want the book.

just as an aside, dewskie...i'm plugging my website for you...it's in my sig. gregorslist. it's craigslist for the world of westeros. enjoy.


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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Just finished all 4.5 books in a few month span. Here is how I grade them...

Book 1: A
Book 2: B+
Book 3: A+
Book 4: D-
Book 4.5: F------



I can't even imagine what it must've been like to wait 7 years between book 4 and book 4.5 and then to read that pile of steaming garbage after that wait. I can't imagine how pissed you guys must've been.

Seems pretty obvious to me that the author has bitten off more than he can chew (insert obvious Douchebag reply about author's eating habits). He's clearly going through the motions of someone who is just trying to get his thing over with.

I would be shocked if the next book is any good.

At this point I'm hoping the books get delayed and the tv series passes the book's chronology and the tv producers hae to finish the story themself. We'll probably get a better product.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:39 pm 
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In response to Shakes question, I dont think GRRM has any clue where he is headed. I think the Red Wedding totally fucked him up. It was a watershed moment in the books but it derailed his whole plot line. After that event the story became way too fractured. In the end I think Jon Snow and Danerys have to be together to unite the kingdom and save them from the Others. A song of Fire and Ice.... But to be honest I dont know how he gets there from here. He fucked up and I dont know if he will ever finish. 7 books will become 10 and he will die before it's done.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:47 pm 
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I agree Hank.

Jon Snow, Dany, and Aegon will be the riders of the three dragons.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:52 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
I agree Hank.

Jon Snow, Dany, and Aegon will be the riders of the three dragons.


Or Jon is the child of a Stark and a Targaryen and he is the Ice and Fire and we dont really need anyone else but him. That would probably be the easiest and cleanest way to fix the fucking mess he got himself into. Let him be reborn after he 'died' at the end of DwD and he can begin kicking everyone's ass in Westeros and across the sea.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I agree Hank.

Jon Snow, Dany, and Aegon will be the riders of the three dragons.


Or Jon is the child of a Stark and a Targaryen and he is the Ice and Fire and we dont really need anyone else but him. That would probably be the easiest and cleanest way to fix the fucking mess he got himself into. Let him be reborn after he 'died' at the end of DwD and he can begin kicking everyone's ass in Westeros and across the sea.


I think all signs point that he is. Also Azor Azhai.

Martin has created a lot of loose ends and the only way to clean it up is massive bloodshed.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:52 pm 
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Jon being Azor Ahai is basically accepted by most fans, almost as strong as him being Rhaegar's son with Ned's sister. Some peeps still hold out for Dany being Azor Ahai and use all kinds of fanboy/girl pretzel logic to support the idea. The stupidest most far-fetched shit is concocted by Martin fans. Like Tyrion or Varys being a lost Targaryen. The fat fuck merchant is actually some descendant of a bastard line of Targaryens (the Blackfyres). Ned Stark's head is on the body of the undead Gregor Clegane. The Others are from outer space and relate to some sci-fi series Martin has.

The television show will catch up to his writing if HBO doesn't cancel it. He already knows how it ends and he has told the show's creators the basic outline. We'll end up seeing the resolution of the saga on tv.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
In response to Shakes question, I dont think GRRM has any clue where he is headed. I think the Red Wedding totally fucked him up. It was a watershed moment in the books but it derailed his whole plot line. After that event the story became way too fractured. In the end I think Jon Snow and Danerys have to be together to unite the kingdom and save them from the Others. A song of Fire and Ice.... But to be honest I dont know how he gets there from here. He fucked up and I dont know if he will ever finish. 7 books will become 10 and he will die before it's done.


very good points, hank.


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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:23 pm 
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Huh?? from the wtf file. Didnt know they were an item. Daenerys is once again single .



It looks as if Seth MacFarlane and Game of Thrones star Emilia Clarke are no longer playing the game of love.
At least not with each other.
E! News has learned that the 39-year-old Family Guy funnyman and the 25-year-old actress have parted ways.
Seth MacFarlane says he will not host the Oscars again
"They are no longer dating," a source tells E! News. "It was really a location challenge. She has been in Europe shooting Game of Thrones and he is based in California, so it was hard to make it work despite the distance. They have remained friends."
It was first revealed they were an item when the two were spotted getting cozy at the HBO Emmy afterparty at the Pacific Design Center in West Hollywood last September.
MacFarlane most recently hosted this year's Oscars while Clarke will soon be seen on Broadway in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

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 Post subject: Re: A Dance with Dragons
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Observations...

- The return of Aegon Targaryen... seriously, how many more freaking plot twists does Martin want to bring into this? Its like Lost, only ten times worse.

- I can only assume Tyrion is the character Martin connects most with. Part of me hopes he ends up with Danerys as the king of the seven kingdoms at the end.

- Love reading the different interpretations of Patchface in different forums.

Anyways... I left reading this more positive than negative, but now I just want to get to the ending and realize its years away. Just like the Cubs going to the playoffs again.

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