I think everything has to be taken into consideration. When the Sox were over .500 seventeen seasons in a row during the 50s and 60s and made the postseason only once, losing a World Series, I'd say they were a pretty excellent franchise.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I dont think either of the Cardinal teams to win it the last few years were the best teams. More of a got hot at the right time. Werent they 82 and 80 and made the playoffs on the last day of the season in 06? and they were 1 strike away from losing the Series a couple times last year no? Id say definetly more lucky than good in those 2 recent cases.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Completely agree they weren't the best teams...I'd say they certainly had the best team in '04 and I could probably make a case for '05 as well, but it doesn't matter as they didn't win it all.

The '06 team was a complete fluke...83-78, backing into the playoffs...Jeff Weaver and Anthony Reyes were two of the four starters in the postseason...LOL. Ronnie Belliard, Preston Wilson and So Taguchi were in the starting lineup for Game 1...Edmonds and Rolen were shells of their former selves all season long...good lord I forgot how overachieving that team was come October.

Last years team was insane for almost completely different reasons...make a frantic late season charge to get into the postseason and then watch as their starting pitchers suddenly forget how to make it past five innings. Of course, having David Freese and Allen Fucking Craig play out of their minds and a makeshift bullpen kick ass helps.

But I'd say they did enough to get in and then they were the best at the right time. And that's the object of the game. Rather than winning 116 regular season games.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Or 97 regular season games even

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

JORR, two teams made the post season in that era, so naturally you can't expect as high a percentage.


Ill say this regarding Cubs-Sox. Every time a Sox fan points out how pathetic it is to go 103 years without winning....it seems they completely ignore the pathetic run the Sox had.

Ill never argue the cubs have been anything but awful....but please stop acting like your squad is the tucking Yankees when they had that kind of drought.

(Most of that is off the board real life stuff)


Rogue, you're right. And the wild card makes it that much worse. I love the playoffs but before 95 you could be reasonably sure the 4 teams that made it were only great regular season teams.

No 83 win Cardinals or 80 Win Padres for Rakims sake!



But....As backwards as be playoffs seem in that way...I wouldn't change a thing (Before this year....the new wild card is terrible)

Cubs have made the post season 6 times un my 32 years on this planet....feels like not enough

Am I the only one who thinks RPB seems like to most over-sensitive Cubs fan on the board?

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

Of course. And finishing second or even third actually meant something then. But my point is that there is something to be said for playing consistently excellent baseball, like 87 win seasons or better year after year. Regardless of what happens after that or if the team even makes the playoffs.




But I've already pointed out why the two runs aren't comparable. The World Series the Cubs last won was fluky because an umpire suddenly made a call contrary to the custom of the time. The Sox tried to lose one and were so damn good they almost couldn't. The aftermath of that decimated the Sox for about 30 years. The Cubs didn't have any problem like that. If the Sox win the one they threw and the one in '59 where they were the heavy favorite, that's four wins which is normal for everyone except the Yankees and Cardinals. Okay, you'll say that didn't happen and that's right but it's really not comparable to the Cubs who even when they made the World Series in the 30s were a longshot to win and did so once with a 4F team that finished last the next season.




Nobody is doing that. The Yankees are a great franchise. The Sox are a normal franchise. The Cubs are an awful franchise.





At least the new wild card format takes the wild card off equal footing with the champions.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Define over-sensitive.

Not that I would say he is by any definition, but it would shape who I would say is.

Not even close. I think he is doing a fine job. He is pretty much dead on.

These kind of conversations are in his wheel house.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

No, I agree.

Growing up on the south side as a Cub fan makes me extremely intolerant of Sox fan trolling.

I wouldn't say sensitive so much as....passionately righteous and heroic

Just like Ryan Dempster.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

JORR, I think the droughts are comparable. Id be more inclined to agree with you if we were talking 30 or 40 years....but 86 years is Very very bad by any measure.



Check out Lipid and RFDC coming together over me!!

I break down walls!

SIDEBAR: Bernstein all but said Dumpster was cheating on his wife and has been getting maaaaad pussy all year since the separation began in the off season.

He then proceeds to have by far the best stretch of his career.

Is it better pussy or freedom that's responsible for the low ERA ? (Fuck ...look who Im asking about ERA)

I don't think you can define organizations strictly by playoff appearances or championship droughts. Good processes lead to good results. Bad processes rarely do. Tampa is a good example of this.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

The Sox just couldn't beat the greatest team in the history of team sports for a fifteen year period or they'd probably be right behind St. Louis in total titles. So it goes, but it's really not the same thing as finishing in the second division nearly every season from 1946-1968. Beating the Yankees in '59 was monumental. The Sox had their awful teams in the 30s and 40s but that was a direct result of the Black Sox scandal. It's all history.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Les Habitants de Montreal may have a word to say about that that

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Come on Joe, surely you are not serious

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Yeah, to some degree. It's like Alydar having the misfortune to be born the same year as Affirmed. The Sox had one run cut short because they cheated and their best team beside that one just happened to run into the greatest team ever- the 50s Yankees. That's why they don't have four or five World Series winners like most teams. The Cubs don't because they've almost always been terrible. You could look it up.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah, they're in the argument, but I deduct points because it's hockey.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Ill admit almost total ignorance on this because I never really paid attention to anyone else during baseballs golden age, but if it werent for those damn Yankee teams in the late 40's , 50's, wouldnt it have been the Red Sox as AL pennant winners for most of those years?

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Yeah, the Red Sox were really good the mid-forties into the fifties. Some of those teams were thought to be the best but they almost always managed to lose in the most painful ways possible. The White Sox just weren't as good as those 50s Yankees. They did well to get one.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I would suggest that the White Sox run from 1951 through 1967 was equivalent to the Braves from 1991 to 2005.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Don't call him Shirley.

So JORR let me get this straight. You are the guy who argues that a pitcher is what he is based on his record. W/L's mean things.

But now you are arguing the opposite for a team because they had at least one team in front of them that was better than they were?

Do not the records and results of a team mean the same? They are who their record says they were--not good enough.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Except that one is over (or 6 years long, depending on how you look at it) and one is the longest in the history of professional sports.

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1 pennant and no titles versus 5 pennants and 1 title...

...gonna say it's just a touch in the Braves favor there.

Divisional play, different rules and different playoffs. I know they don't give out anything for second place, but the answer to who were the best teams in MLB during the 1950's are:

#1 Yankees
#2 White Sox

The Braves have more hardware for sure, but if you look at the wins they are pretty goddam close.

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The Dodgers won five pennants and two titles in the 50s...one of which was over that White Sox team...so yeah, I'm gonna disagree with that too.