Of course. I've said a few times that the Sox weren't as good as the Yankees. I don't believe any team ever has been. In fact, it really goes without saying. But that's an explanation for their lack of World Series titles.

You look at how many the Yankees and Cardinals have won and suddenly four or five total for everyone else is normal. The Cubs have two because they've pretty much been terrible. One they shouldn't have even been in since Merkle's Boner was bullshit. The Sox only have three because a team that might be in the conversation with those 50s Yankees got dismantled for throwing a World Series and their best team other than that ran up against the 50s Yankees themselves. That's just the way it worked out. But I don't think that speaks to the quality of the team's play. It's just dumb luck.

Like when the Sox win the division this year, the fact that they missed Verlander until mid-July is going to play a part. In '05 everything rolled right. Luck does play a role. It is what it is.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Aren't the playoffs a crapshoot?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You didn't see me say that here a single time.

Okay. I was just asking.

My point is that those runs are pretty similar. A lot of good baseball but most often falling short.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Put it that way and I'm not going to disagree with you.

Yeah, I mentioned that

But some of this stuff goes back to pre 2005

Also, throwing that 6 years in, we have 1 Title in 92 years.


JORR, Im willing to concede that the Cubs were way worse in their drought

But the issue is, you didnt win a title for over 8 decades. And you get no credit for throwing a series.


Let me put it this way

86 years without a title, no matter what the circumstances are, is pathetic.

Its less pathetic than 103 years, but only by about 17%

No one gave the Red Sox a break. Talk about a team being blocked by the Yankees!

The difference is those Red Sox teams in the late forties were probably the best team in baseball and they simply failed. The White Sox weren't as good as the Yankees of the fifties but were like the little engine that just couldn't. In '59 they did.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Using the logic that regular season is a better metric than postseason success the Cubs are the 6th best active organization of all time.

No wonder rpb loves that way of thinking.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

86 years is terrible, no matter how you slice it JORR

Who cares about what happened in the 1950s?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not really. Every team has cycles where they're good and cycles where's they're not good. (Except the Cubs who are almost always terrible). It just so happened that the White Sox' two best cycles got fucked up. One by the players themselves who fixed a World Series and the other simply by virtue of finishing second and third behind the greatest team ever. If the format had been different with more teams making the postseason in the 50s, the White Sox would undoubtedly have won more World Series in the playoff crapshoot, right?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yes, I invented that theory and SABRmetrics in general.

Its not like every executive in MLB uses the same principles or anything

Every Sox fan who has ever brought up the Cubs drought?


Are you taking notice of your fellow Sox fan JORR, trying to justify an 86 year drought like its no big deal?

Come on, Bryan. You're a smart guy who really knows his baseball. There is no scientific method behind the idea that a team "can't be built for postseason success". That whole concept is simply based upon Billy Beane saying, "The playoffs are a crapshoot. My shit doesn't work there." That's somehow become gospel.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Does every executive in MLB think that making the playoffs is really all that matters?

When Brian Cashman makes the playoffs this year will he pop champagne and consider the season a success?

This is why I think you are misusing the concept. Yes, playoffs can be random, but that doesn't mean that playoff success isn't still what you should judge teams by.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The 86 year drought was a big deal, but it's over. If the Sox won in 1978 instead of 2005 would it make any difference?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yes, really


That's a shame. The results are the results though.




But the format wasnt different. And every team in baseball played by the same playoff rules. White Sox still had the 2nd longest streak ever.


Of the 5 World Series appearances the Cubs made in the 16 year period between 1929-1945, how many of those are crediting the Cubs with? Certainly the one against the 32 yankees according to your parameters

Every MLB executive uses some form of SABRmetrics.

You act like I came up with these theories.

I was speaking of SABRmetrics in general

The playoffs are random is not just a Billy Beane thing JORR

Most of Beane's stuff is just Bill James' theories (Not that that changes anything, but Beane just used the system first, he didnt invent it)

According to most Sox fans, YES, its a HUGE difference.

If you truly believe this. That playoff success alone is what you should judge a team by, then we have a fundamental difference of opinion.

Im ok with you judging teams any way you want.

I never indicated playoff success is all that matters or are you just being "Obtuse rpb"?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That sentence indicates playoff success is what you should judge teams by

Yes, they should be judged by playoff success. Where does it say to ignore regular season results?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It says nothing about regular season. It says you should judge them by the post season. It doesnt say you should take post season into account or that you cant dismiss it

It flat out says, you should judge teams by playoff success


Dont blame your poor wording on me

Still not seeing where I say you should only judge by playoff success.

Anyways, think what you want but this discussion once again sucks if you are going to argue with me over the fact that I didn't explicitly state something.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This argument has sucked for a while.


Nothing is accomplished.


We all have different beliefs. I wish you would entitle me to my beliefs without acting as if I have those beliefs just to spite the White Sox.


You seem to get upset when people do that with you and Cutler/Orton

I'll do my best to avoid stopping you from having an opinion in the future. Maybe leashyourkids is right and I am offensive.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You cry like Adam Morrisson when people chalk up your opinions to Orton/Cutler hate


But when I do it....