Anybody that lived through Cubs baseball from 1974 to about 1983 will not be having a problem with the idea that a World Series might be 3 years away.

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You know me like that.

OK. I think I got you now, and generally don't disagree on the hypocritical statement. A couple of things from me on this...

1) Yes I will buy my tickets again. The waiting list to get them is way too long...and to keep my seats, it's not something someone gives up lightly. Yes, you are correct in that because of this...the Cubs & Rickett's have "schmo's" like me over a barrell and are kind of giving us a F-U this year, probably next year...maybe more. I'm lucky enough to have a few friends who own their own companies and gladly buy my tickets to give to their clients. So...I probably don't qualify as the guy who is truly re-upping and supporting this current product & plan.

2) Rebuild? Fans? Plan? From my standpoint...the god damn son of bitching mother F'n cock sucking bastards known as the Florida Marlins have won 2 world series titles in "recent" (baseball standards) years. They are on their 3rd or 4th "rebuild"...their fanbase doesn't support shit and can't come close to that of the cubs. So....IF...IF...IF...did I say IF.....the cubs could do the same thing and at least get 1 god damn title (since 1908) by going through a rebuild, I think fans would readily accept that. Now...will they win with this plan...no body really knows and the odds are not great that they will.....but I do think it is a real approach and I dont look at it in any way shape or form that this is Rickett's way of putting money in his pocket and building up the bottom line.

3) slashing payroll is another way of saying get rid of the high priced, lazy, veterans....Give us some "kids that can play"...and some "grinders".....to steal some white sox slogans.

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Proud to be UNVERIFIED.

JORR, you act like the Cubs are the first team to ever rebuild and not compete for a few years.

Almost every franchise in sports has had a throwaway season in the name of a rebuild

I can't ever remember any team with the resources that the Cubs have ever telling its fans, "Fuck you, we're gonna suck for several years and you're gonna like it." Seriously, can you?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

No, that's an issue for the paying customer. Or do you just refuse to watch "until they're good" like danny bernstein?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I guess a companion question would be, how would you grade Theo's work through today?

I give him a C. He really didn't slash any payroll. He just moved the cost of it on the ledger book from salary to expenses. His off season free agent/trades were not particularly good for the Cubs either in comparative production or money savings. I really cannot comment about his draft (which, admittedly, is a big piece of the grade but an incomplete area at this time). His trade deadline was undisciplined, underperformed and frankly, amateurish. He may be headed in the right direction but I don't think this was a particularly impressive year for him as an executive.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I think the message is that everything the Cubs do is wrong. Everyone they trade for is terrible. Every decision the front office makes, every prospect they have and their entire plan are all mirages that only Sox fans are smart enough fans to see through.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

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They havent said that and I dont expect that to happen.

They have said they are building a better organization.

I expect them to be competitive in 2014

Two years of rebuilding and not being in the title hunt is not crazy, no matter how much you think it offends or should offend the season ticket holders


Ya know what should offend the season ticket holders? No titles in 104 fucking years.

Anything that addresses that is fine.

You should ask yourself as a lifelong fan, have the earned anything but skepticism?

Look at it objectively. The draft is really the only thing he can hang his hat on. The draft is both indefinite and 3-5 years from producing at the MLB level.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

They were what? 19-10 since Rizzo got here? Why couldn't they try to contend next season? So they can contend better in 2016? You know today's baseball doesn't work that way. You've got to win when you can.

I think you and I agree that it can turn around pretty quick. You're never as good as you look when you win and never as bad as you look when you lose. The difference between the best and the worst isn't really that much. The thing is they're pretty much losing on purpose for at least two years. When they decide not to lose on purpose there are no guarantees they won't lose anyway.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I think the Rizzo acquistion was good as small a piece as that may be.


But I agree, he hasnt really made a bunch of impactful positive moves....yet

He did sign some cuban players that many MLB teams were also trying to sign. That is a coup for him....and hopefully they pan out or become "chips" to get other talent.

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Proud to be UNVERIFIED.

See this statement here is pure BS and you have no way of supporting it.

First of all, no one knows how the trades will work out right now.

Secondly, if we said at the beginning of the year that the Cubs would get a good pitching prospect from the Braves for Reed and Mahlom you and other Sox fans around here would have laughed us off the site, and rightfully so.

Third, the Dempster deal is so terribly skewed by the botched deal with Atlanta that it is hard to judge. But the more I read the more it seems the Cubs again did better that some believe in that deal and again most would have laughed at them getting anything for him at the beginning of the year.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

JORR...you are not wrong. However, I'm not sure you are right either. The Cubs for YEARS have tried to build competive teams by plugging in a puitcher here, a player there....They have had their "Rizzo's" in the past...they have gone 18 & 10 in the past....the optimism that their team was a contender was sometimes flat out laughable. They havent won! Their minor league system hasn't developed talent or provided a pipeline to replace aging players.....and so on and so on. It's nice to see them focus on youth and talent acquisition.

Baseball is fickle...worst to first is doable....so could the cubs fully compete next year? Probably and go out and buy players to do that...and next thing you know we will have another bloated payroll with old talent and nothing to replace them with.

Fuck if I know. I wish they'd do both....buy everyone, cut anyone, piss away every god damn dollar, go for it every year by leveraging the club...then buy more....try more...spend more....raise prices more......fucking kill me now.

What should they be doing JORR?

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Proud to be UNVERIFIED.

But that's bound to happen eventually. It's really where the Yankees are right now. You're lucky to pull for a team that has the financial wherewithal to spend right over mistakes.

That's the curse of being a powerful big market team. You will end up with old guys and big payroll. But nothing says you can't win with that. It's actually easier than plugging in a new guy every four years because your old guy got signed as a free agent by the Yankees, Red Sox, or the Cubs.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Great. He built some of the best teams in baseball. They just got knocked out in the playoff crapshoot.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah, Soler is a "monster prospect" according to scouts

So he's added

Stewart-Bad and hurt
Rizzo-Looks like a good player
Soler-"Monster Prospect"
Villuneuava-Rated 100 in BA Top 100 prosepcts
Arodys Vizcaino -Rated #2 in Braves organization (even w/TJ surgery)
3 young pitchers under team control
Jaye Chapman.
Jacob Brigham
Hendrick-



and gotten rid of
Dempster-Worthless
Maholm-Worthless
Soto-Worthless
Reed Johnson-Worthless
Kerry Wood-Worthless
Tyler Colvin-Having a good year

Worthless, of course meaning, to the Cubs long term plan

I think you should stop with this sarcastic reply. You've used it enough that people are going to think you are serious

Stop your Cubs talk and get to finding us a club for tonight

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Well, wait a minute. if all a GM can do is build a team for regular season success and the rest is beyond his control, why the fuck should anyone act as if Hendry was less than a successful GM?

I respect your baseball viewpoints and I think you respect mine, but it seems you want to ride the fence on this one. We both know it's not "total luck" in the playoffs, but if it really is a "crapshoot", which seems to be the party line from a lot of fans who read Baseball Prospectus religiously, then Hendry did pretty much what he could do.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I am kinda riding the fence, but Im saying YOU dont believe that.


Look at what happened. A smart kid like IMU responded like you meant it.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I guess my belief at the moment is that the team that wins is the team that builds a good regular season team but also adds pieces vital to the playoffs.

Its hard to do both


That 08 Cubs team feasted on bad teams and pitchers.

Probably could have used a high OPB guy for the playoffs.


But I admit to waffling on this

Not a shot at IMU, for the record

Say what you want about him but he's not dumb

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It is hard to do both. But I think we're going to see six-man rotations used more and more. And not just because it gives guys more rest. If you have six decent starting pitchers, chances are three of them might be at the top of their games come playoff time. It really doesn't matter which ones it is. But as I type this, I'm having second thoughts. I mean, take a guy like Phil Humber as sharp as he was in the first half of the season last year. If you were heading into a playoff series at that time, common sense would tell you that he should be the top guy. But reputation and status is allowed to play a big part. That's why the Sox went with McDowell when he was obviously off his game in '93 rather than Alvarez or Bere.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

This is patently ridiculous coming from a guy who has admitted he posts shit he doesn't believe just to get reactions.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Noting has changed, I expect the cubs to challenge for the division in 2014 and beyond...next year the cubs will be 500..the following year they take down the division almost yearly.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!