So Where Are The Playoff Estimates Now

Terry's Peeps · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:43 am

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

immessedup17 wrote:

I have admitted no such thing. I have 16,881 posts. You won't find me stating that in any of them.

Posting to get a rise out of people isn't the same as making up shit to get a reaction.

http://www.score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1125468&sid=5516e28d4b5156435ea5abfdd612658c#p1125468

Whoops.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

ok I ALMOST never said that

RFDC · **Joined:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm **Posts:** 57199

One day people will learn around here that if you have said something to Brick or RPB they will remember it and they will find it :lol:

City of Fools · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:50 am

rogers park bryan wrote:

Yeah, Soler is a "monster prospect" according to scouts

So he's added

Stewart-Bad and hurt
Rizzo-Looks like a good player
Soler-"Monster Prospect"
Villuneuava-Rated 100 in BA Top 100 prosepcts
Arodys Vizcaino -Rated #2 in Braves organization (even w/TJ surgery)
3 young pitchers under team control
Jaye Chapman.
Jacob Brigham
Hendrick-

and gotten rid of
Dempster-Worthless
Maholm-Worthless
Soto-Worthless
Reed Johnson-Worthless
Kerry Wood-Worthless
Tyler Colvin-Having a good year

Worthless, of course meaning, to the Cubs long term plan

I agree with most of what you're saying, except Maholm wasn't worthless to the Cubs long term plan, at least the way he was pitching this year. And I've always been a Colvin fan, not sure why he did that deal unless Stewart turns out to be good after surgury.

Brick · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:51 am

RFDC wrote:

One day people will learn around here that if you have said something to Brick or RPB they will remember it and they will find it :lol:

It's pretty easy with google search to find stuff.

However, IMU is very lucky that the loss of the political section has resulted in his Israel and Pope thoughts going away.

denisdman · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:52 am

RFDC wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

RFDC-

Don't you think it's a fair question to ask where the savings from slashing the payroll are going? Especially for those you're asking to buy season tickets or asking to watch your product on television to maintain advertising rates? Do you think it's fair for a fan to cheer this demolition of a major league ballclub and then refuse to watch it or spend any money on it?

Of course it is fair for someone to ask those things.

I just don't have those concerns right now.

Maybe those of us who are trusting in the new regime will be proven to clueless idiots. Who knows. It is a crazy game. I just know that for my entire life I have watched the Cubs suck it up and IMO do things the wrong way, and finally they are taking a legitimate shot at doing things differently. I am good with that.

I 100% agree with this. The problem with signing mid-tier guys that some have advocated is that it blocks the ability to judge the talent coming up to the majors. For instance, I would rather the Cubs bring up Vitters and Jackson and let them sink or swim than sign some better now but low upside veteran who will not be here in the future. This applies to the rotation, bullpen and every position on the field. I want to see as much of the close to major league ready talent as we have and let them try to make it. Ship out those who don't and bring in the next batch of youngsters.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

immessedup17 wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

immessedup17 wrote:

I have admitted no such thing. I have 16,881 posts. You won't find me stating that in any of them.

Posting to get a rise out of people isn't the same as making up shit to get a reaction.

http://www.score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1125468&sid=5516e28d4b5156435ea5abfdd612658c#p1125468

That supports what I just said, not JORR's statement.

me wrote:

Rick, I don't know how to address this any clearer. I would think it is usually obvious when I'm being facetious and sarcastic, and when I am serious. If I say something truly, overtly outrageous...you don't think I realize that? Some of those statements have led to long, thoughtful discussions about various important issues. Vanilla posts wouldn't have done the same.

Like anyone I have strong opinions that I truly believe in. I make them known. But had I worded the Pope thread or Israel thread to be a little more politically correct, none of you would have given it the time of day.

IMU doesn't agree with Israel's politics, so what? The thread might have crawled to a second page, and then been forgotten. Instead, you got a provocative headline, and get drawn in.

Where do I state that I'm lying?

GOODBYE THREAD

Brick · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:09 pm

immessedup17 wrote:

Where do I state that I'm lying?

You really will do whatever it takes to get out of something. Just admit you got caught.

IMU wrote:

If I say something truly, overtly outrageous...you don't think I realize that?

Unless you actually believe things you find to be outrageous you got caught.

Just be glad those threads are gone, because you used that excuse in there too.

City of Fools · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:12 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

RFDC-

Don't you think it's a fair question to ask where the savings from slashing the payroll are going? Especially for those you're asking to buy season tickets or asking to watch your product on television to maintain advertising rates? Do you think it's fair for a fan to cheer this demolition of a major league ballclub and then refuse to watch it or spend any money on it?

I've got season tickets. I don't care how much money they save by the payroll they slash. I will be keeping my tickets because of the direction the organization has gone. I had thought about giving them up a season or two before.

IMU: There is no doubt that you and I have pared down our disagreement on a point you made to the point where you said you had at the very least oversensationalized your point to "draw someone in" and that you didn't necessarily believe whatever side you were defending at the moment. Unfortunately those threads appear to have been wiped off the face of the earth. Carry yourself as a senior, not a freshman.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

immessedup17 wrote:

I DO disagree with the Catholic Church.
I DO support Palestine.
I DON'T like Israel's current regime.
I DON'T support unions.

I propose a Union of Israel, Palestine and the Catholic church

Brick · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:33 pm

immessedup17 wrote:

Now you want me to admit to two things that didn't happen?

Where will it end?

Saying something in such a fashion that you expect to get a rise out of someone is NOT the same as saying something that you do not believe in. Of all these threads you've referenced, I have never made a statement that is completely founded outside of my beliefs. Period.

I can't be the only one who remembers you saying that you just say things to keep discussion ongoing. Unfortunately, those threads are gone but I will take you at your word and believe that you fully meant everything you said in those threads and weren't making stuff up.

Don Tiny · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:39 pm

denisdman wrote:

The problem with signing mid-tier guys that some have advocated is that it blocks the ability to judge the talent coming up to the majors. For instance, I would rather the Cubs bring up Vitters and Jackson and let them sink or swim than sign some better now but low upside veteran who will not be here in the future. This applies to the rotation, bullpen and every position on the field. I want to see as much of the close to major league ready talent as we have and let them try to make it. Ship out those who don't and bring in the next batch of youngsters.

Pardon the cliche, but "+1".

Keyser Soze · **Joined:** Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:15 pm **Posts:** 16923

The problem is the Cubs really have nothing in the upper minors. A lot of the guys they were hoping would be ready have taken a step back. The impact players in the minors are years away from helping the major league team and a lot of things can happen between now and years away.

Brick · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:54 pm

immessedup17 wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

immessedup17 wrote:

Now you want me to admit to two things that didn't happen?

Where will it end?

Saying something in such a fashion that you expect to get a rise out of someone is NOT the same as saying something that you do not believe in. Of all these threads you've referenced, I have never made a statement that is completely founded outside of my beliefs. Period.

I can't be the only one who remembers you saying that you just say things to keep discussion ongoing. Unfortunately, those threads are gone but I will take you at your word and believe that you fully meant everything you said in those threads and weren't making stuff up.

Think of it as a gray area. If I blandly stated my thoughts, I'd be completely ignored on this board. I did this when I first joined. No one would engage me. I don't think established board members were very welcoming in the old days.

Sometime around 2009 I noticed that my posts needed to be interesting...they needed personality. This board wasn't about discussing things, it was about zingers and memes.

I adjusted my posting style to get things read. This was the catalyst my more 'infamous' threads in 2010. The opinions were all mine. They way they were stated may, in some cases, be over-sensationalized, to borrow CoF's adjective.

I think the above should be accepted at face-value...but you never have, though I've stated it multiple times. Maybe the additional detail I've added in this post will shed some light on it.

I've calmed that style of posting down a bit... I don't feel as if it is needed to join in on discussions any longer.

All I need now is my Hot Hatch thread and I'm content.

Now... back to the discussion?

2014 or 2015 is when I expect to at least be in a playoff run of some sort.

I consider JORR's characterization to be correct, even with this clarification.

Good to see you no longer feel the need to "sensationalize" your posts to get reactions.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Say what you mean and mean what you say

I wish each and everyone of you were dead

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82148

Don Tiny wrote:

denisdman wrote:

The problem with signing mid-tier guys that some have advocated is that it blocks the ability to judge the talent coming up to the majors. For instance, I would rather the Cubs bring up Vitters and Jackson and let them sink or swim than sign some better now but low upside veteran who will not be here in the future. This applies to the rotation, bullpen and every position on the field. I want to see as much of the close to major league ready talent as we have and let them try to make it. Ship out those who don't and bring in the next batch of youngsters.

Pardon the cliche, but "+1".

As Keyser stated, you act like there are prospects knocking at the door. You could sign an entire starting staff of mid level veterans to 2-3 year deals and not have them block a prospect's progress...and signing those type of players to those type of deals would make you competitive without hamstringing your future.

Get 2 starters at 10 million a piece. Get 3 relievers in the 3 million per area. This team has enough offensive firepower to compete with those moves.

Urlacher's missing neck · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:27 pm

good dolphin wrote:

Get 2 starters at 10 million a piece. Get 3 relievers in the 3 million per area. This team has enough offensive firepower to compete with those moves.

I don't have a problem with replicating the Maholm deal with 2 starters and a few pen arms. They just have to give the team a chance, not be dominant but not get shelled for 8 runs most outings like Coleman and Volstad.

Urlacher's missing neck · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:36 pm

I wouldn't be opposed to adding Brooks Raley and Nick Struck to the 40 man and giving them each a few starts before the end of the season. Raley is probably the only pitcher in AAA that isn't garbage. Struck is nothing special in AA but he isn't as bad as Volstad and Coleman usually are.

As far as position players go I would bring Vitters up for the next homestand and Jackson in September.

Keyser Soze · **Joined:** Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:15 pm **Posts:** 16923

immessedup17 wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:

The problem is the Cubs really have nothing in the upper minors. A lot of the guys they were hoping would be ready have taken a step back. The impact players in the minors are years away from helping the major league team and a lot of things can happen between now and years away.

Josh Vitters has taken a step forward, and seems to be ready for a call-up very soon.
Brett Jackson has neither progressed nor regressed.
Anthony Rizzo already came from the upper minors and has contributed.

It is no secret the organization was weak top to bottom when Theo took over. Natural progression is going fine. In 2 years I believe we will be speaking much higher of our Cubs' AA and AAA teams.

Vitters is having a blah year in the ultra-hitter friendly PCL. He also has committed 22 errors and has a .913 fielding percentage. He's a butcher at 3B.
Jackson was supposed to be more major league ready than Rizzo before the season started and he's still in triple A striking out 40% of his AB's.
Rizzo's a real good player.

Keyser Soze · **Joined:** Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:15 pm **Posts:** 16923

Sure it could. You also have to look at who he's hitting. Is he hitting the up and coming guys or is he just hitting the guys on their way out. There's a lot more to look at for a minor leaguer than just stats.

Keyser Soze · **Joined:** Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:15 pm **Posts:** 16923

It's not analyzing stats. It's called traditional scouting and the scouting says blah.

Urlacher's missing neck · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:12 pm

Keyser Soze wrote:

There's a lot more to look at for a minor leaguer than just stats.

That explains why Kenneth Williams is still holding down a roster spot in AA.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

NSJ wrote:

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

denisdman wrote:

If this project takes until 2015, I am fine with it. .

Fuck, that's a long time.

The division is not good enough for it to take that long.

Interesting. Let's look at the division outside of the Cubs:

1. Restructure --- Houston is gone.
IMPACT: The Central loses it's weakest link, but it also loses a team that the others can beat up on. No chance.

2. Perennially good --- the Cards have shown that they will always be competitive in the Central. Could win this year and the next couple.

3. Team emergence with performers---- The Pirates are for real. I see them capable of winning the Central this year or the next couple.

4. Stockpiled --- The Reds have many top-level players locked up for multiple years. Could easily be the class of the divsion for the next three years.

5. Questionable --- Brewers had talent but most is gone via trades and FA. Don't know if they'll bounce back to win the Central again in the next 3 years.

This is a good analysis but shit happens, ya know

Likely one or two of these statements will look foolish (in retrospect) in a couple years.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:10 pm

Who said that? They had CC for half a year which got them the Wild Card, and for 2012 they just lost a perennial MVP candidate in Fielder. I didn't think they would be this bad this year, but I don't recall anybody saying they would be a powerhouse.

NSJ · **Posted:** Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:26 pm

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Who said that? They had CC for half a year which got them the Wild Card, and for 2012 they just lost a perennial MVP candidate in Fielder. I didn't think they would be this bad this year, but I don't recall anybody saying they would be a powerhouse.

Exactly. I'm sure there are threads which address that the Brewers success would be as short-lived as those two players' careers in Milwaukee.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Before CC there were talks about how loaded the Brewers system was and how they were setting up for long term success. Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hart, LaPorta, Parra, Gollardo....

312player · **Posted:** Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:35 pm

I never thought the Brewers were built for long term success ..They should have kept Prince over Braun...The reds look pretty set but still nothing Real dominant..the Pirates look on the verge if they could pick up another bat and a starter..this division is weak year in and out...the cubs could win this division in 2 years...the only reason why the cards have had success is due to the shitty division.

So Where Are The Playoff Estimates Now

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