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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:06 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Tyson proved himself against tougher competition... Holyfield, Michael Spinks, Buster Douglas....


Are you serious? Tougher competition? Tyson unified the heavyweight division by beating 3 tomato cans named Trevor Berbick, James Smith, and Tony Tucker. He pummeled a 5-10 years past his prime Larry Holmes. I think I actually saw Michael Spinks shit his pants during the refs instructions in their fight. The only two legit fighters Tyson fought beat him: Holyfield and Lennox Lewis. And Holyfield was a beefed up Cruiserweight. Buster Douglas? I give him props, he fought the fight of his life, but the truth is Tyson barely trained for this fight, and spent most of his time drinking Sake and banging Geishas. Don't get me wrong, I loved Tyson. I was in high school when he rose to prominence, and I loved watching him knock ham n eggers into next week. Just don't try to tell me Tyson proved himself against tougher competition than Ali. It's simply not true.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:46 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
TenFootBevRat....



do you think the ’92 team breezed through the olympics partially because international basketball was horrible then? #TFMB—@rgallik_10

and…

Here’s the hot question: In a match-up between the 1992 Dream Team and 2012 USA Olympic team, who wins?—@HuskyCaucasian

International hoops weren’t exactly horrible in the early ‘90s. Recall that ‘Merica won only bronze in 1988. By a very hasty count via Wikipedia, there were about 35 foreign-born, non-Canadian (sorry, that’s America, Jr.), non-US citizens that had been on an NBA roster at some point by 1992. Of course, basketball in America was superior, but internationally it wasn’t like putting Cubans in the giant slalom.

The 1992 Dream Team coasted because they were the greatest collection of players put together ever at that time. Opponents really stood no chance. Since then other countries have been able to prepare a little more for their inevitable losses (except for the 2004 group of clowns of whom we shan’t speak) and have added more current and former NCAA and/or professional players. Like the American game, the international game is better now overall than 1992, even though it wasn’t awful then, just way behind the US.

Regarding the 1992 vs. 2012 team debate, thinking that a team of pros from twenty years ago can beat a team of pros from today is a bit ludicrous. The game and athletes have evolved so much since 1992 that there wouldn’t be much of a chance for Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and crew. Nobody on the ’92 team stops Lebron James in any consistent manner, and conversely James likely owns those guys on the defensive end. Nobody on that team keeps up with Russell Westbrook’s motor. John Stockton, Christian Laettner, and Chris Mullen don’t make the 2012 team. Sorry, short shorts enthusiasts.

I know that we love to be nostalgic and hate to admit that the great teams from previous eras probably couldn’t hang today, but it’s just true. The 1985 Chicago Bears would get crushed by the 2012 Jacksonville Jaguars (¡ESCANDALO!). The Dream Team was the best of their time. It’s not their time anymore, and the style and pace (and defensive rules that guys like Jordan and Stockton couldn’t get away with today) of pro basketball have changed. It’s pretty simple.

And did you see the USA/Nigeria game on Thursday? It was like Carmelo and Co. were exacting revenge for every spam e-mail all of us have ever received. At least Nigerians now love me.


Here's a better question: Who gives a shit what an English teacher/Dan Bernstein dick sucker/Run-on sentence guru thinks about anything? His opinion is not any more informed than any non-Bernstein slurper/run-on sentence creator. In addition, it is not even his opinion; it is his hero Danny's opinion. Then again, Goff is the Score's "NBA expert", and people actually buy into that shit, too, so I shouldn't be surprised.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:28 pm 
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A7X wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Tyson proved himself against tougher competition... Holyfield, Michael Spinks, Buster Douglas....


Are you serious? Tougher competition? Tyson unified the heavyweight division by beating 3 tomato cans named Trevor Berbick, James Smith, and Tony Tucker. He pummeled a 5-10 years past his prime Larry Holmes. I think I actually saw Michael Spinks shit his pants during the refs instructions in their fight. The only two legit fighters Tyson fought beat him: Holyfield and Lennox Lewis. And Holyfield was a beefed up Cruiserweight. Buster Douglas? I give him props, he fought the fight of his life, but the truth is Tyson barely trained for this fight, and spent most of his time drinking Sake and banging Geishas. Don't get me wrong, I loved Tyson. I was in high school when he rose to prominence, and I loved watching him knock ham n eggers into next week. Just don't try to tell me Tyson proved himself against tougher competition than Ali. It's simply not true.



I always loved Tyson. Could he have knocked Ali out had he landed a big haymaker? Sure. And the young Tyson under D'Amato was a true student of the game who understood a lot about footwork and fighting styles. The conventional wisdom seems to be that Cus' death and Tyson's association with Don King led to his demise as a fighter. I truly believe that stuff was incidental. He had never really been hit. Buster Douglas hurt him and he was never the same. The swagger was gone. It was like a magical spell was broken. Nobody was afraid of him anymore.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:42 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
A7X wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Tyson proved himself against tougher competition... Holyfield, Michael Spinks, Buster Douglas....


Are you serious? Tougher competition? Tyson unified the heavyweight division by beating 3 tomato cans named Trevor Berbick, James Smith, and Tony Tucker. He pummeled a 5-10 years past his prime Larry Holmes. I think I actually saw Michael Spinks shit his pants during the refs instructions in their fight. The only two legit fighters Tyson fought beat him: Holyfield and Lennox Lewis. And Holyfield was a beefed up Cruiserweight. Buster Douglas? I give him props, he fought the fight of his life, but the truth is Tyson barely trained for this fight, and spent most of his time drinking Sake and banging Geishas. Don't get me wrong, I loved Tyson. I was in high school when he rose to prominence, and I loved watching him knock ham n eggers into next week. Just don't try to tell me Tyson proved himself against tougher competition than Ali. It's simply not true.



I always loved Tyson. Could he have knocked Ali out had he landed a big haymaker? Sure. And the young Tyson under D'Amato was a true student of the game who understood a lot about footwork and fighting styles. The conventional wisdom seems to be that Cus' death and Tyson's association with Don King led to his demise as a fighter. I truly believe that stuff was incidental. He had never really been hit. Buster Douglas hurt him and he was never the same. The swagger was gone. It was like a magical spell was broken. Nobody was afraid of him anymore.



Well said as always JORR. Once Cus died and King got his talons in him it was over. Tyson's famous quote, "Everybody's got a plan until they get hit.", was his ultimate downfall.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:44 pm 
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How do you get to that level of a sport like boxing without every really getting hit though?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Quote:
John Stockton, Christian Laettner, and Chris Mullen don’t make the 2012 team. Sorry, short shorts enthusiasts.

Did I miss something where John Stockton stopped being one of the best point guards of all time? Did we accidentally rank him so high because whoever was doing the math forgot to carry a 1? The only thing Stockton's NBA career has in common with Christian Laettner's is melanin deficiency. Once again, 10'M is a stroke.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:48 pm 
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2012 Jags beat the 85 Bears? :lol:

Next time anyone puts Laettners name with John Stockton and Chris Mullin they should automatically be shot on the spot.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Ooh, keep it up, guys. One more blatant nugget of idiocy and he'll pop in to say "Mwahaha, I got you talking about my content which was the idea all along; tally-ho, fuckers!" Except we're all pointing it out in a copypasted message board post and denying you pageviews. Tally-ho!

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Last edited by Curious Hair on Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:52 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
How do you get to that level of a sport like boxing without every really getting hit though?


Knock every motherfucker out pretty quick.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:58 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
2012 Jags beat the 85 Bears? :lol:

Next time anyone puts Laettners name with John Stockton and Chris Mullin they should automatically be shot on the spot.



And it's not like Laettner was a terrible player. He had a good NBA career, averaged about 12 and 7. Hell, that's about as good as the great Tyson Chandler. And Chandler is a key guy for this team. Laettner was the last man off the bench in '92.

TFM going with bernstein's "White Basketball" narrative. Where's Beardown when you need him?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:59 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
How do you get to that level of a sport like boxing without every really getting hit though?


The heavyweight division back then was a joke. Fat tubs of goo wore gold. Tyson came along and mowed them down like a machine gun. When he was with Cus he was a true prodigy. A true boxer with devastating power. He won a majority of his fights before the bell even rang. He was the most intimidating athlete I've ever personally seen. When Cus died, the boxer in him fell by the wayside. He became a puncher and little else. And as JORR said, once Douglas knocked him out, the fear factor was gone.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Stockton was/ is as good or better than any point currently in the league today.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:21 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Stockton was/ is as good or better than any point currently in the league today.


He was different than most of these guys today. I guess they're point guards because they handle the ball, but guys like Rose, Paul, Williams, and even Westbrook (although he has Durant) are looking to score a lot of the time. Rondo might be a decent comparison for Stockton.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:56 pm 
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thats one thing i do not understand about bball. all of the sudden point guards need to score? yet the game total points has not gone up? is it because centers are basically non existent now?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:56 pm 
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No one ever mentions the converse of "1992's players couldn't keep up with 2012's speed and strength," which is "2012's players couldn't keep up with 1992's rampant punching in the nuts." That's an equalizer.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:59 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Where's Beardown when you need him?

He's at an Egg Harbor Cafe in Glenview so he can brag about getting rejected by a ton of white women.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:07 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
thats one thing i do not understand about bball. all of the sudden point guards need to score? yet the game total points has not gone up? is it because centers are basically non existent now?


Shooting percentages are down. I guess the guy who is pro-contemporary would say that's because of superior defense.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Surprised pct is down with all the dunks. But I suppose there might be less pure jump shooters?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Where's Beardown when you need him?

He's at an Egg Harbor Cafe in Glenview so he can brag about getting rejected by a ton of white women.


You think it's bragging? I guess you're right. I've made being rejected by white women cool.

I actually did make it a fun game one time. I was out with my buddies and I made a bet that I could get rejected by 3 different white womem. I did it. They each paid me $20 and have not taken that bet since.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Well, when your idea of spitting game is to go up to girls and hand them a slip of paper with a youtube link on it, you're kind of running up the score on the "easy" level, aren't you?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Well, when your idea of spitting game is to go up to girls and hand them a slip of paper with a youtube link on it, you're kind of running up the score on the "easy" level, aren't you?


Nice one. :thumright:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:56 am 
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RFDC wrote:
2012 Jags beat the 85 Bears? :lol:

That one is not as crazy, IMO

Just the sizes of players has gone up so much.

Would ANY of the Bears O line even start? They'd all be very undersized

I dont know what the breakdown is overall but the O and D lines are a lot bigger now


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:06 am 
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Ali Beat chumps like Norton, Frazier, Ron Lyle, Foreman, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Quarry and the list continues.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Ali Beat chumps like Norton, Frazier, Ron Lyle, Foreman, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Quarry and the list continues.


Yeah, Norton looked like a real chump in that first fight when he broke Ali's jaw, and beat him. They fought two more times with Ali narrowly winning both. I still believe Norton won the third fight. Patterson was a shell of his former self when they met. It was akin to Tyson v Holmes. You want a list of chumps that Iron Mike beat? James Tillis, Pinklon Thomas, Jesse Ferguson, Tony Tucker, Tony Tubbs, Mitch Green, Frank Bruno. None of these boxers were comparable to Fraizer, Foreman, Liston, Patterson, or Norton.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:47 pm 
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A7X wrote:
IMO, Joe Fraizer was the "Tyson" of his era. George Foreman put Frazier down 6 times in 2 rounds. Ali knocked out Foreman. Therefore, Ali would beat Tyson the way he beat George. Rope-a-dope.


I always considered Foreman to be the Tyson of his era.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:51 pm 
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A7X wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Ali Beat chumps like Norton, Frazier, Ron Lyle, Foreman, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Quarry and the list continues.


Yeah, Norton looked like a real chump in that first fight when he broke Ali's jaw, and beat him. They fought two more times with Ali narrowly winning both. I still believe Norton won the third fight. Patterson was a shell of his former self when they met. It was akin to Tyson v Holmes. You want a list of chumps that Iron Mike beat? James Tillis, Pinklon Thomas, Jesse Ferguson, Tony Tucker, Tony Tubbs, Mitch Green, Frank Bruno. None of these boxers were comparable to Fraizer, Foreman, Liston, Patterson, or Norton.

Tyson beat whoever was put in front of him for a long time though didnt he?

He fucking beat the three heavyweight champions in a period of 9 months


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:17 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
A7X wrote:
IMO, Joe Fraizer was the "Tyson" of his era. George Foreman put Frazier down 6 times in 2 rounds. Ali knocked out Foreman. Therefore, Ali would beat Tyson the way he beat George. Rope-a-dope.


I always considered Foreman to be the Tyson of his era.


My comparison between Tyson and Frazier is more about their boxing style and size. The peek a boo style they both used. As for fear, intimidation, and the power to knock a motherfucker out, I agree Foreman was the Tyson of his era. Ali did to Foreman what Buster Douglas did to Tyson. They both shattered the myth of invincibility. Tyson beat what was put in front of him. I don't fault him for that. I just believe Ali beat better fighters than Mike did when it came to title defenses.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:21 pm 
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I was being sarcastic.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:23 pm 
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A7X wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
A7X wrote:
IMO, Joe Fraizer was the "Tyson" of his era. George Foreman put Frazier down 6 times in 2 rounds. Ali knocked out Foreman. Therefore, Ali would beat Tyson the way he beat George. Rope-a-dope.


I always considered Foreman to be the Tyson of his era.


My comparison between Tyson and Frazier is more about their boxing style and size. The peek a boo style they both used. As for fear, intimidation, and the power to knock a motherfucker out, I agree Foreman was the Tyson of his era. Ali did to Foreman what Buster Douglas did to Tyson. They both shattered the myth of invincibility. Tyson beat what was put in front of him. I don't fault him for that. I just believe Ali beat better fighters than Mike did when it came to title defenses.


I know this is the CSFMB and all but I can agree with all of that.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:53 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Stockton was/ is as good or better than any point currently in the league today.

Agreed Stockton could definitely be a top point guard in today's league. I can't think of many guys I'd trust running my offense than him.

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