actually, true season ticket holders (not the businesses) are the ones selling tickets well below face on StubHub. So actually they help the market and the average fan. I should know.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

That's not helping the market. It's just the current demand. Those tickets are cheap because many are going unsold. Cheap tickets would likely be available from the organization if they couldn't sell them up front for a higher profit.

Let's put it another way. Every Cubs game you go to for free and every game you make a profit on costs some other Cubs fan money.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

1. Most high level profit games are sold to out of towners (say 85%)
2. Most low level to no profit level games are sold to in-towners

It's a continuance of an argument I was making yesterday. The Cubs fill the stadium with out of towners along with their fan base. It's a major reason why they outdraw the Sox. When the Cubs are good, I exist to rob the rich for my own benefit. When the Cubs are bad, I exist to make a ton of Cubs fans happy with what amounts to 3/4 or 1/2 price tickets. The last two years, there were a lot of average Cubs fans. I exist on an edge. I don't make enough money to afford season tickets without doing it the way I do. My income bracket could barely afford to go to Cubs games. I feel no guilt that I lucked into these things ten years ago.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

The second part isn't true. They don't go to games cheaper because you have season tickets. Those would still be available if you didn't have them. You do however artificially inflate the value of tickets when demand is high by taking profit or going to games for free.
You shouldn't feel guilty but the Cubs should find a way to stop letting others profit off of them for the good of everyone but the ones who profit off of them.

You are just doing what you are legally allowed to do, but it's a market condition that doesn't improve the team and doesn't help those who want to attend games.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The second part isn't true. They don't go to games cheaper because you have season tickets. Those would still be available if you didn't have them. You do however artificially inflate the value of tickets when demand is high by taking profit or going to games for free.

no....the Cubs don't sell tickets for undervalue if the team is bad. Season ticket holders do. 1/2 price tickets don't exist without me. This isn't the Sox. Price is not negotiable.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

That's because the Cubs have an artificially high season ticket holder base because many buy tickets to subsidize the games they want to go to or to make a profit.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

now you're verging into "I don't know what I'm talking about". People in my tier, some of them, sell like that. I'm not in the majority however. Most season ticket holders are well to do, anyone in the bottom tier for example. It's just the 500 section, and even that the majority of them come to nearly every weekend and night game. You must not know many Cubs season ticket holders.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I don't understand what you mean. There is a certain percentage of Cub season ticket holders that purchase tickets with the intent of making back all of the money they bought it for and then either selling more of them for a profit or going to games and basically attending for free. That artificially raises the season ticket base while they extract profit from it. It doesn't matter if it is 5% or 50%. All that does is change the magnitude.

So, explain what "I don't know what I'm talking about" is referring to.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well....

Like those vegan restaurants where you pay what you think is fair?

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I don't remember half the time if I'm hiding or I'm lost

the use of the word "many" is what I took issue with. There's not a whole lot of season ticket holders out there who do what I do so completely. Your issue should be with the Cubs selling to ticket re-salers. Those guys won't lower their prices and they have the wherewithal to eat unsold tickets, so the price never gets low. The number of guys like me has grown, but just out of neccesity to try and keep what was given to us.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

There are many who do it though. So your issue was with my correct word choice? Got it...

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I guess you gotta define many, Rick.

Like I said, your issue should be with big business, not with the hardcore fan trying to hang on to his season tickets by any way neccesary.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I'm pretty sure that any definition works.
Is someone a hardcore fan if they are trying to simply go to games for free or to make a profit off of it?

I understand why people do it, but if a person is simply buying tickets to get something for free or to make a profit I don't really think they are a hardcore fan. I'm not talking about someone who sells some games because they can't attend every game, but there are many that buy them for reasons other than just attending games.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I just laid it out for you. You think it's break even or profit the majority of the seasons? Of course not. Most of the guys like me are just trying to make enough money to afford the tickets next season. We're making money at the expense of rich out of towners. Do you at least understand the argument I am laying out, whether you think it right or not?

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

My god! More White Sox attendance talk???

Why can't the goofs at the Score understand that maybe people just don't want to go. Why do they need to have reasons from people? And then when they get a reason, they dump all over it.

Maybe, just maybe, the White Sox aren't as popular as people think. And maybe, that contract the Score has with the Sox was a bad decision. Get over it. Stop rubbing people's noses in not going and live with the broadcasting deal you made.

wrong thread dude. Nice avatar, I like it.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Ooops...I got all discombobulated here. Trying to cook and monitor the boards.

Don't cook the boards!

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Actually, I think they do.

http://www.wrigleyfieldpremium.com/

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

ah...so wrighlyfieldpremium is selling tickets for below face? Yes or no?

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

There is no real face. Wrigley Field Premium prints the ticket while you wait.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

what kind of answer is that? Face is what is on my season tickets. If I go buy a seat in section 539 row 7, the price on their ticket will match the price on my ticket. Prints while you wait? What does that have to do with anything?

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

There isn't a stack of tickets in a drawer at Premium is what I'm telling you. You go in there at noon and ask how much a bleacher seat is. It might be $100. You pay $100 and they print a ticket that says $100 on it. Go in an hour later and the price for the same seat may be $70. They'll print one that says $70 on it. The "Chinese Wall" between Premium and the Cubs is very thin, if it exists at all.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

my whole point was we're the only ones selling Cubs tickets under face. Unfortunately you came late to the conversation and must have misunderstood me. Of course the price fluctuates on premium tickets. It just doesn't go below face.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I'm not sure about that. But I think you're misunderstanding me.

Wrigley Field Premium is the Cubs. This is from their website: "Wrigley Field Premium Ticket Services, LLC. is a licensed Illinois ticket broker that purchases tickets from the Chicago Cubs for resale. Both Premium and the Cubs are owned by Chicago Baseball Holdings."

A real ticket broker like Gold Coast buys actual tickets from the team and resells them, hopefully- but not always- at a higher price. Premium doesn't work that way. Its "purchase" of tickets from the Cubs is really only theoretical. Premium carries no stock. It sells directly from the Cubs. It's really just another Cubs ticket window but in a separate building across the street.

When someone buys a ticket from Premium, there are actually two sales taking place. The first "sale" moves the ticket from the Cubs to Premium at some price that will be established later on by Cubs accountants to best possible tax advantage. The second sale transfers the ticket from Premium to the consumer. Some Cub executive is making a call on what the consumer pays, most likely based upon factors like current seats actually sold, time until game, etc.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You seem to be backtracking here.


Just own the fact that you buy Cubs season tickets with the intent to go to games for free. I don't blame you. If it works then go to games for free. I just think the Cubs should find a way to keep the money you are generating(every game you go to for less than face value is money earned).

You've made it pretty clear that you buy season tickets and then sell enough to at least attempt to make your money back. The fact that you lose that bet in some years really doesn't matter. I bet you cleaned up and made really good profits in a lot of years and went to a lot of games for free.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I started commenting on this thread by saying that the whole point of owning season tickets is to be able to afford playoff tickets. The Cubs have made the playoffs in 2003, 2007 and 2008. I didn't sell a single ticket in 2003. Nobody believed in the Cubs in 2007 so the only season I've made a "profit" was 2008. I've only broke even in 2004 and 2007. Every other year I've lost money. I'm in the middle of trying to decide if I can afford the next two years of suck. I may have to drop the tickets. I used to be a Bulls season ticket holder. Can't afford 'em now.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

What do you mean losing money? It sounds like you mean that you actually had to pay to go to Cubs games. That's the thing. You may not have recouped your total costs of the season tickets, but that's because you went to a lot of games for significantly cheaper than if you had just bought them.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

as I told you earlier, I only go to Opening Day. Friends, family, aquaintences, people who know people who know me...all go for free. But that's neither here nor there.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.