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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Liked last might's episode.

I thought Neal was gonna get fingered (hi chas) as the guy who threatened Will for real. I also thought Lonnie was a goner when Neal called him.

Alan Arkin great as usual.

Next week should be good.

First season finale for a Sorkin show, so someone's gonna die.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:11 pm 
I love all things Sorkin, but they coulda just put this on USA of nobody was gonna take their clothes off 8)


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
I love all things Sorkin, but they coulda just put this on USA of nobody was gonna take their clothes off 8)

You wouldn't get drunk Sam dropping F-bombs then.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:13 pm 
Home5licE wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
I love all things Sorkin, but they coulda just put this on USA of nobody was gonna take their clothes off 8)

You wouldn't get drunk Sam dropping F-bombs then.

Yeah, but I can't believe we haven't at least gotten a t0pless shot of the roommate.


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:22 pm 
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It doesn't really feel like an HBO show, does it? I mean, right out of the chute, the credits, with the big sweeping empty-gesture music and Ken Burns still-pans, would slot right into CBS at 9. Compare to The Larry Sanders Show, or The Sopranos, where right away you know you're watching something that is, if you'll pardon the hackneyed allusion to their stupid slogan, more than just television. HBO is supposed to be the vanguard of entertainment. Sorkin's m.o., just ask him, is to do well-worn middlebrow that sounds intelligent without necessarily being so.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:12 pm 
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Great season finale.

I love this show. They cram so many story lines into the hour. It's, intelligent, funny, sad, compelling and witty. That makes a great show. Kudos to the writers. They are the true stars of this show.


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:41 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
It doesn't really feel like an HBO show, does it? I mean, right out of the chute, the credits, with the big sweeping empty-gesture music and Ken Burns still-pans, would slot right into CBS at 9. Compare to The Larry Sanders Show, or The Sopranos, where right away you know you're watching something that is, if you'll pardon the hackneyed allusion to their stupid slogan, more than just television. HBO is supposed to be the vanguard of entertainment. Sorkin's m.o., just ask him, is to do well-worn middlebrow that sounds intelligent without necessarily being so.

+1

I watch HBO for gratuitous sex and violence. The Good Wife has more of both.

This show has no business on HBO

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:22 am 
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Beardown wrote:
Great season finale.

I love this show. They cram so many story lines into the hour. It's, intelligent, funny, sad, compelling and witty. That makes a great show. Kudos to the writers. They are the true stars of this show.

Ugh, no, stop. Aaron Sorkin is not a good writer when left to his own devices. He can do very well when sufficiently babysat (The Social Network), but when he's free to indulge all his peccadilloes, he's insufferable, not to mention that he lacks what many would agree are some pretty fundamental writing skills.

For instance, he's completely unable to write dialogue. "That's not so, he's got two people talking to each other all the time," you say. Well, yes, or does he? He either doesn't know how to create characters who exist independent of himself (or Kristin Chenoweth) or he willfully declines to do so. He's admitted as much -- there's some interview out there where he says he doesn't get why fans can say Alison Janney's character said something out of character, because her character is only capable of saying what he writes for her to say. Superficially speaking, this is true; no one was out there ad-libbing it on The West Wing, but the point he's missing is that good writing requires that you step outside of yourself in creating your characters. We're switching from television to literature here, but while Huckleberry Finn only said what Mark Twain told him to say, he didn't always say what Mark Twain himself would have said; you get my drift? DFW, who at first glance would probably be accused of making all his characters hyperverbose, was actually one of the best at capturing the ways Americans talk, and in fact, putting his characters' voices against his own served to accentuate how well he did it.

Sorkin is also one of the worst exposition/informed-attribute artists going. In going all out to prove that his is a Writer's Show and not an Actors' Show, he leans so hard on telling over showing that I'm surprised he hasn't broken his writing desk in half. Everything we're supposed to know about a character in his show, we know because someone says so. For someone who makes such a big deal out of doing "smart television," he at no point trusts his audience's intelligence enough to figure out for themselves that a character is intelligent or beautiful or a Republican. It always has to be said. Often repeatedly.

And on that Republican thing: writing Will as a Republican is such a weak stunt to me. We're supposed to think that boy, if a Republican is this fed up with Republicans, things must really be bad! Well, yes, they are that bad, but like I said with the informed attributes, he at no time says anything a Republican has said in the last 20 years, or anything a moderate Democrat hasn't said, so we only know he is a Republican because he says so. He's the real Republican in Name Only! It hits close to home, being in the responsible-spending/culturally-permissive quadrant myself, but again, tying back to how all Sorkin characters are never not Sorkin, this isn't really a Republican criticizing from within, this is a liberal Democrat criticizing the Republicans from the outside and then slapping a false "Made in ___" label on the product. If the conservatives had their own Aaron Sorkin, I wonder if that guy would ever write a gay man who said "look, I may be gay, but I flirt with my female co-workers all day, sleep with them occasionally, then go home every night and fuck my wife. Some of you fairies are really giving us a bad name!"

So really, I'm not sure what this show offers other than the pleasant rhythms of witty retorts and pseudo-intellectual patter. Not that I'm against such a thing -- I sure did like the first few seasons of Gilmore Girls -- but at least a show like that was realistic about its place in the universe as a light dramedy on the fake UHF network that also showed Buffy the Vampire Slayer and America's Next Top Model. It never aspired to capital-letter Greatness the way Sorkin's shows do, swinging for the fences and missing. I don't see the fun, value, or efficacy of playing Captain Hindsight with news reporting, and then dressing it up in some generic office-romance shit for the women whose delicate ladybrains can't process the Great Men Doing Great Things that are the backbone of every Sorkin production.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:51 am 
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Great season finale.

Pure Sorkin. Genius.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:30 pm 
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Enjoyed the finale very much. Up there with some of my favorite West Wing episodes. Looking forward to season 2.


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:50 pm 
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It was... ok. I'm not totally impressed by the show. There are a few good moments in it. I really like the banter between Daniels and the english chick. You can have most the rest of the cast, maybe with the exception of Mandingo.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:51 pm 
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I just watched the finale.

I really want to like this show. I loved The West Wing and most of Sorkin's stuff. But, this show is indulging all his worst tendencies. That finale was horrible.

Far too much time spent on ridiculously implausible love stories. Mac is practically a caricature and completely annoying. She should just rip off her clothes in front of Will and welcome him to the buffet.

And Curious Hair beat me to the punch on the worst -

Will McAvoy - "I'm a Republican. Now, here's a hundred horrible things that we will surreptitiously associate with the Republican party but, I repeat, these aren't Republicans and I can say this because I'm a Republican that has not really expressed any actual Republican thoughts. And, by the way, Republican, Republican, Republican. Good night."

OK. Well done.

Also - he's recycling lines from American President about Tea Party people who love America but hate Americans.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
he's recycling lines from American President about Tea Party people who love America but hate Americans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S78RzZr3IwI

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:58 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
he's recycling lines from American President about Tea Party people who love America but hate Americans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S78RzZr3IwI


Wow.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:08 am 
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Got forced to watch an episode this shit-show 'Newsroom' and couldn't stand how phony all the dialogue sounded, like junior poli sci majors dutifully parroting their professors thoughts and ideas in an effort to achieve allah knows what.

I assume Newsroom's audience consists of the same tone-deaf earnestos who can watch this all the way through without turning
it off out of embarrassment for the people who made it:

http://youtu.be/ZAxzd-bGABA

fwiw, Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a great show, a bridge for tv as a medium-for-quality-storytelling between the X-Files hit-or-miss attempt to tell a consistent story built up over time from smaller stories sectioned off by seasons and the full-on attempts at novels-on-tv that win all the awards nowadays, e.g., Homeland--the latter development helped out by the popularity of netflixing and dvd'ing entire seasons of shows post-broadcast.


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:45 am 
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NearWessSideHussra wrote:
Got forced to watch an episode this shit-show 'Newsroom' and couldn't stand how phony all the dialogue sounded, like junior poli sci majors dutifully parroting their professors thoughts and ideas in an effort to achieve allah knows what.

I assume Newsroom's audience consists of the same tone-deaf earnestos who can watch this all the way through without turning
it off out of embarrassment for the people who made it:

http://youtu.be/ZAxzd-bGABA

Haha oh god yes. Even so many reviews that panned the show--even posters here!--came with disclaimers like

Quote:
Now don't get me wrong. I'm on your side. I loved The West Wing, and I'm a good liberal idealist just like you who wants to live in a world where a brilliant, perfectly articulated speech is all it takes for the good guys to win. That being said, toomuchexpositionandlatentmisogynyIgiveita7/10i'mnotatraitorokaytalkamongyourselvesnow


Quote:
fwiw, Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a great show, a bridge for tv as a medium-for-quality-storytelling between the X-Files hit-or-miss attempt to tell a consistent story built up over time from smaller stories sectioned off by seasons and the full-on attempts at novels-on-tv that win all the awards nowadays, e.g., Homeland--the latter development helped out by the popularity of netflixing and dvd'ing entire seasons of shows post-broadcast.

Not a big Joss Whedon guy (another TV auteur I just find annoying) but I see where you're coming from.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:35 am 
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Maybe because I haven't seen Sorkian's other stuff, I like this show more than some of you. I'm hearing his agenda for the first time.

I know it's over dramatic. I know it's a liberal message. I know he's trying to show that republicans are evil. I know he hates women and thinks very little of them by the way he writes these characters.

It's still entertaining to me. There is some very good story lines that were written well.


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Just got caught up on the last 6 episodes. Unfortunately, my opinion hasn't changed much on the series. Waterson and Daniels make this show watchable. They are an A+ every episode. But the writing is so blatantly pathetic and hypocritical to the show's premise that I wonder how anyone can take it seriously. Like CH said, the witty, mindless banter is entertaining enough and the two actors I mentioned make the show about a B- in my eyes. That's ok enough to keep watching it, but I had A expectations and this show has A potential. Unfortunately it's in the wrong hands. If Sorkin was more like Will McEvoy and less like Reese Lansing, it would be an awesome show.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:51 pm 
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This article sums it up best for me: I know the show isn't perfect and I still love it, flaws and all...

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/08/why-i-love-the-newsroom-a-defense-of-imperfection/261598/

My favorite graph:

So The Newsroom's not perfect. Most TV shows (and books, and films, and so on) aren't. Among the shows that weren't perfect: Sports Night and The West Wing, which both became great television, but after initial episodes that found the writer and his team struggling mightily to find the right tone, voice, and style (and if you don't believe me, take another peek at those early, strained, laugh-track laden episodes of Sports Night). But because those shows were created by Aaron Sorkin and not AARON SORKIN, they came on the air with a low enough profile to allow for some stumbling and experimentation. Studio 60 and The Newsroom were not afforded that luxury. They were expected to be masterpieces right out of the gate, and when they weren't, they were dismissed as failures, flops, and bombs.


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:58 pm 
What's extremely funny is the Breitbart got all pissy about the finale. Hey guys.... IT'S AN HBO DRAMA. Written by a guy who makes Micheal Moore look independent. If you get mad because you turn on a Sorkin show and he's trashing the GOP, you only have yourself to blame. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:34 pm 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
This article sums it up best for me: I know the show isn't perfect and I still love it, flaws and all...

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/08/why-i-love-the-newsroom-a-defense-of-imperfection/261598/

My favorite graph:

So The Newsroom's not perfect. Most TV shows (and books, and films, and so on) aren't. Among the shows that weren't perfect: Sports Night and The West Wing, which both became great television, but after initial episodes that found the writer and his team struggling mightily to find the right tone, voice, and style (and if you don't believe me, take another peek at those early, strained, laugh-track laden episodes of Sports Night). But because those shows were created by Aaron Sorkin and not AARON SORKIN, they came on the air with a low enough profile to allow for some stumbling and experimentation. Studio 60 and The Newsroom were not afforded that luxury. They were expected to be masterpieces right out of the gate, and when they weren't, they were dismissed as failures, flops, and bombs.


Curious Hair wrote:
Even so many reviews that panned the show--even posters here!--came with disclaimers like

Quote:
Now don't get me wrong. I'm on your side. I loved The West Wing, and I'm a good liberal idealist just like you who wants to live in a world where a brilliant, perfectly articulated speech is all it takes for the good guys to win. That being said, toomuchexpositionandlatentmisogynyIgiveita7/10i'mnotatraitorokaytalkamongyourselvesnow


I'm sorry, but "it's not perfect, so whaaaaat, what even is in this crazy world" is not a valid defense. It presumes that people asked for perfection. They didn't. People did, however, ask for quality, inasmuch as it airs on the network that has given us numerous groundbreaking programs that redefined what television was capable of. This is not that. This is the same old Aaron Sorkin trick bag unfurled on a network and audience that deserve better.

Invoking Studio 60 is another cheap trick. There's stumbling out of the gate, and then there's falling off your horse.

Baby McNown wrote:
What's extremely funny is the Breitbart got all pissy about the finale. Hey guys.... IT'S AN HBO DRAMA. Written by a guy who makes Micheal Moore look independent. If you get mad because you turn on a Sorkin show and he's trashing the GOP, you only have yourself to blame. :lol:

Breitbart? He died.

I would place Moore well to the left of Sorkin, by the way. Moore's leftism comes from a real place (southeast Michigan being utterly fucked up by powers that be), and while he's Atwaterianly disingenuous as a documentarian, I can respect his own respect for grassroots action and populism. Aaron Sorkin is just some guy who grew up buying the Camelot myth lock/stock/barrel and thus endlessly romanticizes the notion of handsome white Democratic men benevolently and articulately ruling us all. He doesn't even like the internet because people on them aren't credentialed enough to talk. What a dick.

Maybe people didn't like the finale because it was artless ranting and half-assed MSNBC-impersonating. Going back to the point about Sorkin and his overreliance on informed attributes, as well as the one about Studio 60, one of the biggest reasons for its undoing was the fact that the show-within-a-show sketch comedy was never funny or groundbreaking, it was just declared to have been funny and groundbreaking, and thus it was so, unless of course you actually watched it and said "that wasn't funny." Could it be, then, that the big culmination of the new news show that the entire season was predicated on delivering was not intelligent and cable-news-transcending the way it was supposed to be, but really just the same tired snark and pap MSNBC gives us already? Same dilemma. You can't just wave a wand and say something is something it isn't. This isn't theater of the mind. Sorkin either does not grasp this or willfully chooses not to.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:38 pm 
Sorry I should have said Breitbart.com. His minions still run the site even after Andy's untimely demise.


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
lipidquadcab wrote:
This article sums it up best for me: I know the show isn't perfect and I still love it, flaws and all...

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/08/why-i-love-the-newsroom-a-defense-of-imperfection/261598/

My favorite graph:

So The Newsroom's not perfect. Most TV shows (and books, and films, and so on) aren't. Among the shows that weren't perfect: Sports Night and The West Wing, which both became great television, but after initial episodes that found the writer and his team struggling mightily to find the right tone, voice, and style (and if you don't believe me, take another peek at those early, strained, laugh-track laden episodes of Sports Night). But because those shows were created by Aaron Sorkin and not AARON SORKIN, they came on the air with a low enough profile to allow for some stumbling and experimentation. Studio 60 and The Newsroom were not afforded that luxury. They were expected to be masterpieces right out of the gate, and when they weren't, they were dismissed as failures, flops, and bombs.


Curious Hair wrote:
Even so many reviews that panned the show--even posters here!--came with disclaimers like

Quote:
Now don't get me wrong. I'm on your side. I loved The West Wing, and I'm a good liberal idealist just like you who wants to live in a world where a brilliant, perfectly articulated speech is all it takes for the good guys to win. That being said, toomuchexpositionandlatentmisogynyIgiveita7/10i'mnotatraitorokaytalkamongyourselvesnow


I'm sorry, but "it's not perfect, so whaaaaat, what even is in this crazy world" is not a valid defense. It presumes that people asked for perfection. They didn't. People did, however, ask for quality, inasmuch as it airs on the network that has given us numerous groundbreaking programs that redefined what television was capable of. This is not that. This is the same old Aaron Sorkin trick bag unfurled on a network and audience that deserve better.

A network and audience that deserve better?

Get over yourself already.


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:47 pm 
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It's not tv, it's HBO

HBO muddies the rest of their offerings airing this Lifetime-meets-MSNBC crapfest.

'Course, this is also the network that assaults us with "Real Time Sex" or whatever that freak show's called.


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:57 pm 
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NearWessSideHussra wrote:
'Course, this is also the network that assaults us with "Real Time Sex"


That Bryant Gumbel is really going for ratings, huh?

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
NearWessSideHussra wrote:
'Course, this is also the network that assaults us with "Real Time Sex"


That Bryant Gumbel is really going for ratings, huh?


holy carp, there's a "real sports" in addition to a "real time" in addition to a "real sex"

good catch, professor doctor.


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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:08 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:

I would place Moore well to the left of Sorkin, by the way. Moore's leftism comes from a real place (southeast Michigan being utterly fucked up by powers that be), and while he's Atwaterianly disingenuous as a documentarian, I can respect his own respect for grassroots action and populism. Aaron Sorkin is just some guy who grew up buying the Camelot myth lock/stock/barrel and thus endlessly romanticizes the notion of handsome white Democratic men benevolently and articulately ruling us all. He doesn't even like the internet because people on them aren't credentialed enough to talk. What a dick.

Maybe people didn't like the finale because it was artless ranting and half-assed MSNBC-impersonating. Going back to the point about Sorkin and his overreliance on informed attributes, as well as the one about Studio 60, one of the biggest reasons for its undoing was the fact that the show-within-a-show sketch comedy was never funny or groundbreaking, it was just declared to have been funny and groundbreaking, and thus it was so, unless of course you actually watched it and said "that wasn't funny." Could it be, then, that the big culmination of the new news show that the entire season was predicated on delivering was not intelligent and cable-news-transcending the way it was supposed to be, but really just the same tired snark and pap MSNBC gives us already? Same dilemma. You can't just wave a wand and say something is something it isn't. This isn't theater of the mind. Sorkin either does not grasp this or willfully chooses not to.

Outstanding.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:10 pm 
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NearWessSideHussra wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
NearWessSideHussra wrote:
'Course, this is also the network that assaults us with "Real Time Sex"


That Bryant Gumbel is really going for ratings, huh?


holy carp, there's a "real sports" in addition to a "real time" in addition to a "real sex"

good catch, professor doctor.

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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:30 am 
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This or CSI?

There are not ten shows on right now better than this. I think its top five.

Its a TV show. If you hate it so much why the fuck do you watch it? To bitch? Guess so.

Sorry guys. Mad About You is gone. Will and Grace too. Move on.
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 Post subject: Re: The Newsroom
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:52 am 
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Mr. Belvidere wrote:
This or CSI?

There are not ten shows on right now better than this. I think its top five.

Its a TV show. If you hate it so much why the fuck do you watch it? To bitch? Guess so.

Sorry guys. Mad About You is gone. Will and Grace too. Move on.
Image


What a terrible post. You should work harder at making good posts.

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The future holds the possibility to be great or terrible, and since it has not yet occurred it remains simultaneously both.


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