If teachers are going to be judged simply on test scores, it should be based on growth. A teacher who takes a kid from a 19th percentile to a 35th has done a great job, even if the state labels that a failure.

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Stop with the "Teachers work extra at home".

So do a lot of people.

Karen Lewis is a horrible public face for the union.

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Yes, but a very entertaining personality for local news. You never know what she's going to say next.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Why? are you guys just going by looks?

She is a fucking pig...

The "teachers work at home" stuff drives me nuts. Lots of people do, and everyone else doesn't get summers off... nor are they done working at 3.


Such a non-issue, there are better things to discuss in this matter.

Yes, like how to accurately evaluate teacher performance.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Anyone who has a job with any degree of responsibility works more than 40 hours a week, brings work home, and stays late. I find it difficult to believe then when they were in undergrad, student teaching, or getting their Masters that they had NO idea of what the hours and compensation were going to be like once they got a job.

Maybe it's because when there's the threat of a teacher's strike or an actual strike in the city or the suburbs it's highly publicized, but I can't think of anyone who bitches about their jobs more than teachers. Their benefits packages are quite nice, too, correct?

Many, at least the ones who make it into the paper or on TV, also seem to assume that everyone is on their side and should fall to their knees thanking them for the heroic feats they perform each and every day for the...CHILDREN. Is it the union that makes them seem unsympathetic to some (including me) or the teachers themselves?

There's some interesting stuff in this thread. If I were a CPS teacher, I'd be concerned. When you've lost people like Terry's Peeps, you've got a serious problem. Whatever the issues, and I'm sure a lot of people aren't completely educated on the matter, the teachers don't really seem to have public sentiment on their side. I realize we have a small sample here in our forum, but I'm surprised at some of the views and- in particular- the people espousing them.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

During my 9 hours in a Jury Duty lounge yesterday, I tried to read up on the situation as much as possible because I was extremely ignorant on the subject.

From what I gather, the teachers want money that simply isn't there and the CPS isn't willing to make significant enough concessions in terms of job security/teacher evaluations/rehires/school closings for the teaches to accept less than the money they want (16% raise spread out over 4? years I believe)

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Team Cutler.

I'm normally a union guy, but the teachers union seems to have made the decision to strike based more on the fact that Rahm "disrespected" them and less on issues.

Based on my admittedly limited reading, the issues seem to be:

"Step” increases: Teachers are balking at giving up annual raises for each extra year they work. They are wrong on this issue. It’s no longer acceptable for a teacher to get a pay hike just for sticking around year after year. CPS has proposed swapping steps for an alternative that provides additional compensation.

Raises: The CTU rejects a proposed 8 percent raise over four years when they know CPS is broke.

Teacher recall: With dozens of school closings likely on the horizon, the union wants a recall policy for displaced teachers. The union and CPS reached a compromise on this in July, giving displaced teachers first shot at jobs needed for the longer day without guaranteeing them work. Principals can also fire them if they don’t work out. Cool.

Evaluations: A new state law requires basing at least 30 percent of the evaluation on student test score growth. CPS opted for 40 percent. Not completely unreasonable.

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but none of those seem like outlandish demands from the CPS. And maybe the union would get more sympathy if the leadership was actually talking about these issues rather than incessantly bloviating about how the mean old mayor doesn't appreciate you.

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I'm not really that familiar with all the ins and outs of it myself but I have a pretty good idea about your politics and those of some other guys here who are less than sympathetic toward the teachers. They're in a pretty precarious position without public support from people like you.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Principals are failed teachers or those who had no passion for working with kids. The idea of THEM doing the evaluations is laughable.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Lots of people in trouble right now or have a rough time with their jobs. I don't think I'd want to be a teacher. I have limited experience but kids, parents, the way they teach things now, there's a lot of crap. I don't know if it's true across the board but I think teachers at our school ask parents to do a little more than we should or at least with too little direction. They've made me a little upset at times.

Holy sweeping generalizations, batman

I dont think anyone is downplaying their importance.

But just because they're important doesnt mean they dont have a sweet deal.


Sorry, but the sad reality is, you are not going to garner much sympathy from people who work 50-60 hours a week 52 weeks a year, when you are bitching that your 9 month year job is going from a 6-7 hour day is becoming 8-9

I agree with the idea that showing improvement on test scores is much more important than the end result. Taking a kid from the absolute bottom of the range to even below avg should be viewed as an accomplishment and then let the teacher next year continue building on that growth. You cant turn a kid into a good student overnight, it takes time and patience.

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Right, but unfortunately that's not reality


How many people here find the system in which their job is judged to be perfect? Probably not many.

That's Life, man

That's true, most people just arent in a position where they can strike and make unrealistic demands on taxpayers.

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They have every right to protest if its wrong, but dont expect sympathy from me.

of course not...and those same people will say the same thing about just about any other public employee including cops and firemen. Everyone is overpaid in this world, except for me. I think it's been that way since the beginning of time.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

The other thing the teachers are upset a out is the pensions. The problem with the pensions is not the side of the teachers but with the CPS and state . They have not paid into it as per the contracts.Just like Social Security ,you pay in and your employer pays in,well the employer,ie CPS has not been paying in. That is why we are having pensions problems here. Now they want to take away them from the teachers. Remember they do not get social security. This I think is one of if not the major reason we need to kick all the assholes that have been in State and local government out of office . If this was happening in the private sector they would all be being brought up on charges by the Justice dept,unless they where contributors to Obamas election fun,but I digress.

The raise thing is another issue,they have not gotten contract mandated raises for 3 years. So they want to lengthen the school day and have them take a pay cut. Sound okay with you? I admit the head of the CPTU is a total moron and abomination, I asked a friend of mine how she ever got elected to the head of his union and he had no idea either.

I think Rham thought this was going to be as easy as the way he handled the laborers and other unions he smashed before, this fight is going to be long and ugly and as I said before the coming war he is going to have with the Firemen and Police is going to be a hoot. Look at what he wants to do to the Firemen and see if you agree with it.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Well said, comrade Chas.

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What are you saying?

I think saying teachers work 6-7 hours a day is not real accurate. I am sure there are some who are milking the system, but the majority of them work more than that. Just because school lets out at 3 does not mean their work is finished.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I think most people have to do extra work at home or at least work over 40 hours. That's not unique to teachers.

The thing is, they have a sweet schedule. That much cant be argued. Now that the schedule is getting a little less sweet, they want a raise.


I know there is more to it than that, but that is part of it and I just dont sympathize.

Agreed, but there are a lot of people who work more than their scheduled hours, as well as take work home with them. It's not a phenomenon unique to teachers.

Edit: What Bryan said.

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I agree with everything you said. Their schedule is nice and I am sure others do work at home too. But I often see people specifically call out teachers for their day being over at 3, and that just isn't really true.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

You're wrong. All teachers punch out at precisely 3 PM, just like their contract says. The school building is a ghost town by 3:10. Nobody left but night time custodians. By 3:30, every single teacher is at home making plans for what they are going to do on their summer vacation.

Principals are even worse. They never even come to school. In fact, they never come off of vacation.





edit: always love it when the people that aren't in a certain profession know way more about that profession than the people in it. Not talking about teaching specifically - any profession. Everybody knows how to do the cops job better, the politicians job better, the doctors, etc. Everyone is an expert on every other profession that they've never actually practiced.

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Where did you play your ball?

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