That does not get them to the middle of the pack year in and year out.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Oh good one, you got me. I did not know Indiana sucked.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

This is correct.

Being better than perennial doormats like IU would put them there though.

_________________

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Actually, Indiana has won twice as many over their last 40 against big ten teams.

_________________
Git on back there.

3 wins vs. the big 10 all time is not going to get that done.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I'll take this as another data point in NIU's favor.





This is all pretty cute though. Anyone who doesn't think the landscape of CFB has shifted in the last 10 years hasn't been paying attention. Shifted toward the "little guys" getting more exposure, more $$, more success, etc. 10+ years ago I would not have said the same thing about NIU. But the times have changed.


Anyone associated with IU should probably sit out of this conversation. It only makes the NIU case much stronger.......

_________________

You said middle of the pack year in and year out. Can you name at least three teams besides IU that NIU would be perennially better than?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You are making yourself look foolish spanky. I am a graduate of IU and a big fan of IU, but I completely get how bad they suck at football, but that really has nothing to do with this conversation. This is about the Big 10 as a whole, and as a whole NIU has no place. They are not competing with them year in and year out. Historically they haven't and over the last 8-10 years they haven't.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

At this point going forward, they'd be really competitive, year in and year out, with everyone not named:

Michigan
OSU
Wisconsin
Nebraska
Iowa (down year this year, but perennially tough).

The rest of the Big Ten is questionable at best, some are just bad (Purdue, IU, Minn, Illinois is continuing to fall). PSU would have been on the list 12 months ago.

_________________

Try to keep up. It matters completely. NIU is a better program than IU right now, no question. That's one team below them in the hypothetical "Big Thirteen".

_________________

Being better than IU right now does not make you fit for the Big 10.

3-37 vs. the Big 10 all time says it all. You have no defense for this other than to say oh it don't matter,things have changed.

Wooo hooo NIU is better than IU.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Within a few years PSU will be better than them every year. I think Illinois, Minn, and Purdue would beat them at least 60% of the time. I'm not a big college football guy though. MSU wasn't on the list. I think they would dominate NIU year in and year out.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Both of these statements is the very reason why you should probably not participate in this argument.

NIU is better, right now, than IU. Have been for a few years. That's one of the concrete reasons that supports my side.
If you cannot at least acknowledge the change in the CFB landscape, mostly due to TV exposure/$$$, you're in denial.

I'm not saying a "mid-major" like NIU could compete with the CFB heavyweights. They are still in a completely different universe. But those heavyweights are also in a different universe from IU, Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois, and now PSU for sure. All of those programs are much more similar to NIU right now than they are to the OSU's of the world, not to mention the SEC and other big boys out there.

_________________

Completely agree about MSU. Forgot them in my original list. They are a perennial power in the conference.

3 wins vs. the Big Ten for NIU are all fairly recent, and all vs. Purdue and Minn.

_________________

They can't beat Illinois?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

They would be "highly competitive" with Illinois every year as it stands right now. There is absolutely no question.

_________________

What does that mean? Would they beat Illinois 50% of the time?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'd say that's fair at this point. And that's true of a lot of the "bottom feeders" in the Big Ten when they play each other as well. Does any of the bottom half of that league "own" each other year in and year out?

_________________

Coin toss...if they played 20 games ..probably go 10-10

_________________

Well NIU is 0-11 against Illinois all-time so that coin seems to be loaded.

Once again, NIU is 2-6 in their past eight Big Ten games. Once again, that's during the heyday of NIU football, and it doesn't include any games against Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State (yes, I know they'll suck now), etc. They also have losses to crappy major-conference teams like Iowa State and Kansas. Your argument is pretty much that if you take the Big Ten and then you remove the best six or seven teams NIU could probably go .500 against the rest. Uh, OK. That's not really competing. It's being Indiana, more or less.

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

Don't forget, you're the one, in this very thread, that decided margin of victory/loss matters. Check out some of those 6 recent losses.

According to you, anybody that loses to Iowa this year by more than 1 pt is worse than NIU!
I agree!

_________________

And Purdue, and Minnesota, and.......

Thanks for seeing my point.

_________________

No, it's Indiana. The difference is that the programs like Minnesota, Purdue, and Illinois have occasional big seasons. These are the big seasons for Northern Illinois. Best case scenario after all that, with your top teams and a weak schedule, is they go 2-6. This is their golden age, and their record would be tied for 9th in the conference. That's the full upside. Median is maybe you sneak past Indiana at home. The down years, you are Colorado 2012.

Illinois, Purdue, Minnesota in down years usually go 2-6. Indiana doesn't. That's what makes them Indiana.

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

You think this is NIU's "big season"? They're worse than they were last year, no question.

Remember that one glorious year in the last 10 years that Illinois had? Yeah, me too. That's the point.

_________________

IU is getting unfairly pounded as the only doormat in the Big 10 these days.

Remember those great seasons that Purdue and Minnesota have had in the past decade? Me neither.

_________________

NIU opened as a 9.5-point favorite against KU next week.
(10 in some places)

That surprises me. I thought they'd be favored, but 9.5-10 seems a little generous.

_________________

This has been a very amusing thread.

My thanks to all.

_________________
You know me like that.

I always enjoy the annual NIU thread.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

It's like clockwork on the CSFMB.

_________________