If that happens, I guess the Sox might "unchoke".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

7 years ago dude. The past is for cowards and losers.
What have you done for me lately?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Sorry. No.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Everything you're talking about here is just "fan talk". It's not reality. You don't need to know a choke when you see it. You've clearly defined it as "losing 10 of 12 games late in the season" or "losing 3 games in the standings in a week." Or are there other definitions you're holding back?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Wow.
When someone whispers in your ear do they hear an echo?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

So the choke has occurred and even if they managed to defy the odds and win the division that wouldn't change. Do I have that right?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I still don't think this was a choke because it was a team that played over their head all year and they finally ran the well dry.

_________________
That's my purse! I don't know you!

The Yankess were up 3-0 on the Red Sox and lost that series. Did the Yankees choke? If the Yankees won 3 in a row and then lost 4 in a row in May, would that be a choke?

I'm not sure what else you can say about a 6 game swing in the standings in about a 10 day stretch in late September.

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I think it's enough to call it bad baseball without speculating on the mental state of the players.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

? What?
Why would my fandom decide my worthiness? What kind of backward ass logic is that?
So the Sox win in '05 makes you, somehow, a better person?

That's the second most bizarre thing I think I've ever read here.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

The Mets were up 7 with 17 to go in 2007, and ended up losing the division. Is that really a "choke," or are the fans just unfair?

_________________
The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

Let's face it.

The Cubs choked in '03, '04, '07 and '08.

The Sox choked this year.

The difference is we can admit this.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

This is just Q being Q for the sake of Q-ing. I guess I should have expected the Q-nitwittery.
Carry on.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Ouch.

I'm not so sure how "epic" this is. The lead for any team in the AL Central has never been bigger than 3.5 games. This was a petty tight race all year. Its a pretty big dammed failure though thats for sure. This was right there for the Sox take it and they gave it away. Even if they were 6-6 over this stretch they are still ahead by a game.

_________________

What?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Darkside is right in calling it a choke. Whatever Jorr must be entertaining to him. It doesn't have the same feeling as the Cubs losing in 2003 or 2004 because the expectations weren't high.

Realistically speaing the '03 expectations were not high until late September. The Cubs were essentially a .500 team until that big Cards series the first week in September.
'04 for sure though.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

jorr bernstein

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Proud to be UNVERIFIED.

I'm a fan of yours JORR, but I really hope you have been drowning your sorrows all day. It's the only explanation. This is worse than "Football is not more popular than baseball".

I will give you an out:

What teams have definitely choked away a playoff spot, in your opinion? List a few.......

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I was thinking more of the NLCS than the regular season.

Still not making any sense. But I really don't expect you to. So you have met my expectations and did not exactly choke away this thread, though you have still lost it.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Ran out of meds or doing a bit?

Ah. Yeah, I suppose needing one win with Prior and wood pitching 6 and 7 and losing both qualifies.
Well played.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Certainly the biggest choke job the Sox have pulled since the '83 playoffs.

Fortunately the team was never that good and would have promptly lost in the playoffs. But still....huge choke job.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Epic choke? No way. Cubs 84 and 03 are epic chokes. I'd put the 83 playoff loss way ahead of this.

I don't know. Would you agree that the connotation of "choking" is players not playing up to their abilities due to some outside pressure?

I don't doubt that pressure affects some players more than others. Everyone is different. But I do find it hard to believe that it could affect an entire team at once. Hubie Green missing that putt is a choke. But even something like the Bartman game, I'm not really sure. Obviously, Alou's antics bothered Prior, but he did get the double play ball he needed. Then a usually sure-handed shortstop muffed the play. Maybe that was a choke. Maybe it was just an error. Even the best make some. It could just have been one of those at an inopportune time. I don't know.

Like I said earlier, I don't think players look at the games the way the fans do. It's their job. I don't think the Sox players are as upset about the way the season ended as Frank and I are. I think most guys that make it to that level go about their work in a very professional way without a lot of emotion or thought to given situations. I think those that are prone to what we might call "choking" probably don't last long.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The short version of that is:
JORR doesn't think there is such a thing as "choking". For any team.

In that case, naturally he doesn't think the Sox choked. Choking doesn't exist. The majority of other people would look at that as a choke.

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Right. But they can't define "choke."

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That is what I am saying as well. He sounds just like him when he gets on one of his stubborn rants.

Next thing you know JORR will be telling us how he was dunking a tennis ball

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Are we all in agreement that this was a choke?