Does this mean that Green Bay didn't choke last year?

So we can all agree that the 2012 Sox didn't choke and instead were just shitty?

_________________

I don't really know. But I do think any reasonable person would have to dismiss the idea that 25 or even 10 guys all "choked" at once. And I certainly don't think Paul Konerko, who hit one of the biggest home runs in Sox history on baseball's biggest stage, suddenly "choked" vs. the Kansas City Royals in front of 12,000 fans on a Wednesday night.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I wouldn't say shitty, just a little better than medicore and not as good as the Tigers.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'd say a choke is more than simply losing. I would say a choke is losing due to underperformance against equal or inferior competition during a high pressure period. There may be reason why it happened unrelated to intestinal fortitude, but the Sox choked.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Choke job supreme.

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"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." ~ H.L. Mencken

Webster's definition: " To lose one's composure and fail to perform. To perform effectively in a critical situation". Trouble for me is Beckman, Alexis, Youk being triple AAA hitters. Low and way and they will swing at it. Wise, who got cut by the Yanks, playing. Using Thornton when the guy has lost it. mostly,again, Triple AAA pitchers.

So really was it choking or just a bad team playing over their head?

Webster doesn't know anything.

Unless they go out and lose about 88+ games next year, it really only can be called a choke.

_________________

That's been my point the whole time. I don't think anyone on the Sox lost his composure.

But I'm not sure they were "playing over their heads" earlier either. They just had a bunch of young guys and a bunch of old guys that were more likely to wear down late in the season. You see a guy in his prime like Rios is the same as he's been all year. You see a guy like Verlander who went through a stretch where he was less than his best but then came back strong again at the end. I don't think it's fair to expect the same from Sale who was stretching out from 71 innings last season. And I don't think it's shocking that guys in their mid to late thirties slow down late after a grinding season.

Am I disappointed the Sox lost? Hell, yeah. Am I surprised? Not in the slightest.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

If there no choking and they only did what was expected out of them this year, then why would you be disappointed?

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Because Detroit did far less than expected and the division was there for the taking. But I pretty much thought it would go this way for more than the last month. I watched almost every game. You could see the Sox wearing down.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Bill Melton pretty much echoed my point today on mully and hanley.
He even agreed that individual players pkayed tight or poorly in pressure situations.

I can't agree that a team "played over their heads" for 148 games. That's kind of silly. They were a first plave team all year. That's what they were. Not playing o er their heads. They were a first place team almost the entire year. Saying they we're ovwr their heads for 95% of the season is just odd.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Interesting. Robin Ventura agreed with me. And he was a better third baseman than Melton.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He's not always wrong, you know. Was he reading the board?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Beckham agreed with JORR.
Rios agreed with me.

By the law of transitive property, I win.

_________________

Law of tranvestite properties is completely different.

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so you can have clutch hitting but not clutch choking?

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Ain't it kinda Robins job to say they didn't choke and they're still in it?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

This is the best thread in the history of the board. I have read all of it and am assured of one fact. The White Sox pissed it away. It was theirs for the taking and they did not grab it. Lost every game they needed when it mattered most. That is choke in my world. But call it a bad stretch or whatever. They shit the bed. Nuff said.

It was mostly because they failed to hit in the clutch even when they had the momentum and were playing in Sox weather.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

If I started this thread Frank would have had a heart attack, but Darkside did, so it's OK

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

He sent me a ton of hate mail and a dead fish.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Define clutch and Sox weather please.

Pressure is off, and they score 11.

Hmmmmmmm.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Clutch is the opposite of choking so I guess it means winning 10 of your last 12 games. Sox weather is weather that gives the Sox the advantage. Don't you want me to define "momentum"?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You haven't exhausted every fallacy known to man yet. Keep going.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Denial!
Just face it man.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

What do you think I'm denying? The Sox finished second. There's no denying it.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

JOOR it is OK to admit you are wrong. Human beings are wrong quite often. We all make mistakes. Learn from them.