I think it can be a destination job for an elite coach. Probably not for a guy with deep roots in Ohio though. Like Doc said, it's really perception. I'm sure RFDC will argue, but the Ohio State job isn't "better" than the Illinois job. But Groce would probably think it is.

Also, timing is everything. A guy like Groce puts together a good run at Illinois- maybe wins the Big Ten 3 of 5 seasons and goes to a the final eight twice and a Final Four- and Calipari calls it quits in Lexington, he's probably going to be on a short list of candidates for the Kentucky job. That's why I don't see what Shaka Smart's end game is. I don't think he'll ever be a hotter commodity than he is right now and he hasn't moved. You have to believe he likes where he's at. I don't think you can "wait for your dream job." You wait, they may not want you. You have to keep climbing.

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Don't take it personally.

The OSU job is a way better job than Illinois.

As far as it being a destination job, I guess it depends on your definition of destination job. Sure it would be a destination job for Groce if he replicates Weber's time there and no one else around the country wants him. I am sure Weber would have stayed for a long time because of that reason. But there is no doubt in my mind that if Groce has some success there he will be gone in a heartbeat.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Why is that?

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You know me like that.

Its funny of you to argue the concept of a "destination job". What the hell does that even mean? I'm not sure those exist today in college sports.

Didn't Weber find a job pretty quickly?

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Don't take it personally.

Seems like a destination job is just one that is going to pay you a shitload more money.

If Dee Brown became a coach and was the next Brad Stevens, Illinois would be his destination job.

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You know me like that.

You left off an important point of where that job is at.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Come on Doc. You are a bright guy. Anyone with even close to an objective bone in their bodies can see that OSU is clearly the better job over Illinois right now.

The job at OSU is not at the level of the elite programs right now, but it is headed that way. Surely you do not really think that a person would pick to coach at Illinios over OSU right now?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I think "destination" means a guy can't really get a better gig. Like you said, there are really only a few of those.

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Don't take it personally.

Kinda like game face

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

That sounds like something fans of a school like Illinois say to make themselves feel better when they got like their 5th choice for head coach

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Sure, it's a better job right now. But, that's because Thad Matta has been very successful. Prior to him, they'd gone 14 years without a legal NCAA appearance.

A destination job should be one regardless of the current level of success of the program if it even exists. It should be so because the program has such esteem that it shouldn't matter if the team is even good, you'd still want to go there.

I would say that would only really be - UNC, Kentucky, and Kansas. Coach K might have made Duke that as well but it's hard to tell until he leaves. But, then Williams left Kansas, so how much of a destination job can it really be? So, they probably don't really exist.

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You know me like that.

I never said OSU was a destination job. But it is way closer to that than Illinois.

And if you do not think Duke is a destination job then you are crazy.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I agree with you, but I would add Indiana, UCLA, and Duke to your list. Obviously, Krzyzewski is identified with Duke, but they had a decent history even prior to him arriving.

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Don't take it personally.

Ohio State isn't a better program historically than Illinois.

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Don't take it personally.

I never said it was. I said right now the OSU job is way better than the Illinois job.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I think it probably is just because of the $$ associated now with the program. But, I could easily see the next coach failing and Duke hitting "hard" times.

If the next coach goes .500 in the ACC for a couple years. Then what is it? Is it a destination institution or just a place where Coach K was very successful?

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You know me like that.

A wise man has described, on this very board, what makes a college BB job more attractive than others. Let me see if I can remember what that handsome gentleman came up with:

1. $$$$$
2. Facilities
3. Media exposure
4. support from a stable administration


Somewhere down the list would be "historical success". It may matter a little, but not much.


Illinois is deficient, to say the least, in #2 for sure, but also #1 and #4.

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I think it has risen to the level that even if it has a few bad years it will still be a destination job.

UCLA has went through rough seasons. Indiana has. UNC has.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

UCLA is a good example. It was "the" destination job...and then it wasn't...and now maybe is sort of is again.

I don't think there are destination jobs. There are just jobs that are currently great situations. Some institutions are more frequently great situations and so they draw more attention because they also typically have more money.

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You know me like that.

Probably about the equivalent of UCLA.

edit:
beat me to it

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Doc you are all over the board on this.

There are a few...

Duke probably is one...may not be

There are none

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

"Destination" may be a bad label, but the idea of an elite program that almost all coaches stop and consider strongly if available is the what the idea is.


Illinois is nowhere near that level.

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I thought this conversation was about football.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

I'm trying to work through a definition to explain why people think there are. Can't really do it.

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You know me like that.

Just be thankful Arkansas is a basketball school.

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yeah, women's.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

Is that program better than their women's football program?

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You know me like that.

SMILE! ............ALABAMA!

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ok doc, there are no destination jobs whatsoever. Illinois is on the same level as everyone else.

You are starting to sound like a MAC football guy now, just so you know...

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."