How was Chief Keef not interviewed for this documentary???? I want answers.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

That was really strange. 20 old guys sitting around talking about how they would have been sitting around...on their buddies dime. Great friends!

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@audioidkid

That part was just brutal. You can see how people would think that at the time, but you'd hope that, with hindsight, they'd appreciate how that's not really a good thing. You've pointed out a lot of the interesting things about this doc; it was really rich in that regard. There was probably more left unsaid but left to the viewer to glean than there was explicitly stated.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Interesting interview with Kenny McReynolds about Ben Wilson. Claims he wanted to go to DePaul but
was offered money from a booster and was going to Illinois to help out his mom.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

Kenny McReynolds says Ben wanted to go to DePaul but he was going to Illinois because he was getting money from a booster.

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The girl purjured herself on the stand sending at least one innocent person away for 30 years if the shooter is to be believed. She also was the reason Wilson was in an agitated state when he approached the shooters. It is a good idea for her to stay far away from the story. I was glad to hear their son got a college education.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Back in those days DePaul wasn't shy about matching funds + $.

But I remember Illinois being a lock.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

And this is why all good people like DBag.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Many still believe (correctly or not ) that she had something more to do with what happened that day. I knew some of the guys around Ben and while they (nor he) weren't exactly angels there was other crap believed to be involved that she helped stoke.

Ultimately, I don't believe the shooter, his "remorse" looked heavily staged and his background "story" sounds like complete bull.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

He dropped out of that school he got his scholarship too. Could not find anything else on him.

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So you think they were mugging a 6'8" high school kid with little money, in broad daylight, in front of a popular store with a gun? That is a really, really bad plan if true.

I didn't think from the interviews that even the prosecutor believed the theory of the case he presented. He did know that he would get a conviction no matter what evidence he put on.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I wish Nas would stop by with his thoughts on the whole thing even if they are from a decade after the incident.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

yeah that don't seem very likely.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

No, they were from a different set than Ben's normal group of guys were & they wanted to make a name for themselves. That those two came at the star who was known not to be able to box (& who benefited from the "protection" of those around him) AND who was being goaded by his "girl" made the mugging story incidental. And lessened her culpability.

But in fairness, any good prosecutor should have had "questions" about one night confessions the CPD got in that area back then. There were no concerns about who did the shooting. The theory was less of a place for prosecutorial concern, this time. The self defense claim is largely laughable. It was extremely well known who the actual hard guys were on that Simeon squad, and who (Ben) wasn't.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I acknowledge your superior information on this topic but I want to be clear on the story: these two were gang members specifically targeting Wilson with the help of his girlfriend. Why? He seemed to be one of those guys who are specified as "hands off" to the gang members both for recruitment and targeting...at least it seemed like it from his stature in the community from the documentary. Anyway, what would be the goal of shooting him?

I am with you that the shooter's story seems odd...wasting a day over 10 dollars then sticking around because it had already been resolved. Still, they had that female Simeon student who was interviewed who seemed to corroborate their story.

That really was another trobuling part of the whole documentary. The whole tragedy seemed based in pettyness. Still, high school boys do stupid things.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

The problem was that so many of the players @ Simeon were known active thugs, despite Ben not "really" being one of them. Everyone knew he was part of the group....but not really of the group. He should've had the athlete/bookworm pass, but his profile & associations didn't allow it. Up to that point, that pass allowed good friends to get from the edges of "Terror Town"(or any neighborhood) to anywhere in the city despite what any gang affiliations may have been perceived.

That's what really shocked so many of us. (And why so many of us maintain a belief that the gf had something more to do with it.) You/they just didn't do that. It was an unwritten rule. It really was the beginning of the end of the South Side I grew up in. Yeah, we all did stupid things, but not THAT stupid.

Hell I remember not going to games back in the day because of crap like the Simeon/Farragut game. You might get mopped, but you weren't going to get shot. And looking back now, I even find myself surprised at how petty it really was.

FWIW, it sure as hell didn't help that Cooley High was broadcast on Channel 7 the night all of this took place.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Ah, the good ol' days.

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You know me like that.

Yeah, no kidding.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

I forgot to mention the odd appearance of Scoop Jackson. I didn't think he was as old as he looked. He gave off a strong down low brother vibe and I think he is shrinking.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Of course nothing is guaranteed, but I'm pretty confident in saying Len Bias was the goods. Benji reminds me of Derek before Derek. I think his NBA career would be comparable.

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"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." ~ H.L. Mencken

just watched this show last night - very sad story. his friends definitely seemed pretty bummed out that their opportunity to roll with a superstar was cut short. the gunman's story seemed to be more logical to me than the whole robbery angle, but who knows.

This is off-topic, but it's somewhat related to Regular Reader's post above.

Earlier this week I went to visit my former business partner who is doing natural life in Menard. The beefs that go on in that place over petty bullshit would blow your mind. It's a lifestyle, I suppose.

I found it fascinating to hear my partner talk about "the blacks" in a way that was judgmental but somehow completely devoid of racism. He's the minority in prison. It's hard for me to explain, as I had never heard anyone with such a viewpoint. Of course, it's not everyday I go to a max prison. It's kind of like everything that goes on in there is matter-of-fact. They live in a small world and that world can be turned upside down at the whim of others at any moment. They better learn how to deal with that.

He's been in for twelve years. He was telling me he sees these young kids, 18, 19 years old, gang guys come in off the streets of Chicago and they're so aggressive it's unbelievable. They'll attack a guard right off the bat. Lockdown. He said he wishes he could tell them that they fucked up their lives to get in here and now they're fucking up their lives while they're here, but they just won't listen.

Inevitably they acclimate to the surroundings and maybe want to get a job to break the incessant boredom of 22 hours a day in a cell. With a file that has "assault on staff" time and time again, that will never happen.

Once in awhile, one of these young gang members will fuck with him. My partner says, "You gonna fuck me up? Go ahead. When you're finished I'm going to go right to your gang chief and tell him how weak you are that you were so intimidated by a small old Jewish man that you got in a fight with him. How do you think that's going to play for you?"

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

JORR, you should start writing a book...or at least copy and paste your posts in a word.doc
I started doing that in late 2011.

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@audioidkid

A "best of" CSFMB posts book would be pretty incredible bathroom reading.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

I think my post announcing my divorce was pruned. I've never been able to find it. Would've been between March and May 2006.

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@audioidkid

How did his gf perjure herself and why did his mom sue?

His mom had a med malpractice suit against St. Bernard's Hospital given the absolutely substandard (& remarkably slow) medical "treatment" that her son received that contributed to his death.

The gf perjured herself because she gave sworn testimony on the stand that most observers believe was filled with lies about what actually happened.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

The shooter's story is that there was no robbery but that an agitated Wilson bumped into him starting an argument that ended in the shooting. Her testimony was that they were mugging Wilson.

The real problem with her testimony if the shooter is telling the truth isn't that the shooter did time. He would have had a hard time claiming self defense when he had a gun and Wilson was unarmed. He was going to prison either way. If the shooter is telling the truth then his accomplice went to prison for nothing.

When you conspire with another to commit a crime with a gun all of the violations comitted in furtherance of that crime are placed on all members of the conspiracy. That is why I don't believe the state's case. They were looking to convict both of the boys who were present at the shooting. The only way they could do this is if the shooter and the accomplice made their plan in advance. I definitely do not think their plan was to mug. RR believes that their plan was to do something else. Whether that was true or not the state only proved a mugging with the girlfriend being the key witness.

Without the mugging evidence there is nothing that connects the accomplice to the crime. Simply being present when your friend goes nuts isn't a crime.

I think the state coerced her testimony in order to get a tidy double conviction. This may also be in line with RR belief as she saved her own ass with a mugging story because if she was part of the conspiracy to kill him, she would have gone away as well.

Wilson's mom sued St. Bernard Hospital for their faulty care when Wilson was brought in. The case was settled out of court.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

What was the conspiracy supposed to accomplish? Why did the girlfriend want him dead?

What was the end game? Although I'm sure they didn't think it through to that point.

It's not my theory.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.