I'm asking the many football fans here who is a guy (other than Cutler) they think was great who had a less than great career due to the failings of others. Neither Bledsoe nor Warner fits that profile.

_________________
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Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

David Carr. That guy had HOF written all over him.

But, again, that's an impossible question because no matter who you say, the immediate response will be "that guy sucked" just by the nature of the question.

I seemed to recall Bert Jones getting his ass handed to him on a regular basis until he was finally forced to retire. Guys like Ken Anderson or Neil Lomax might fit the bill as well. There's a few.

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Archie Manning

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Bert Jones looked like a great quarterback. His career was shortened by injuries. Ken Anderson played a long time and was a nearly great quarterback. Neil Lomax is forgettable.

I think it's a question that answers itself. There are none. Great quarterbacks make the guys around them. Not the other way around.

Obviously, you look at the skills Cutler has and of course you have to take him over someone like Orton. But when we're talking real results in the real world, Cutler is closer to the Ortons than he is to top guys.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Alex Smith

Was Dan Fouts great?

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You know me like that.

I'd say so. He was certainly a great passer.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Then why did he have a .500 career record. Cutler has similar or better statistics in every category -

Team record
Comp %
Yards/Att
Rating
Int%
TD%
TD/Int

So, if you are talking real results in the real world, is Dan Fouts like Kyle Orton?

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Without that 4th quarter rating, they might have the 28th worst offense in the league instead of the 26th.

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It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

So Jay is clutch?

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Okay, Doc. First let me say you're putting me in the uncomfortable position of defending Fouts, a guy I never really liked. When you asked the question I was forced to grudgingly acknowledge his greatness.

You know as well as I do how different the game is and how common high-powered passing offenses are these days. When Fouts did what he did, he was a freakish guy. He led the league in passing yardage four consecutive seasons. The only thing Cutler has ever led the league in is interceptions. Fouts was a six time Pro Bowler, twice first team All-Pro, and is a Hall of Famer. If Cutler carries his averages- which you compare to those of Fouts- for the next 7-10 seasons he will achieve none of those things.

Now let me ask you a question. Do you think Jay Cutler is the equal of Dan Fouts?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I love Dan Fouts. My late Sundays as a yout' were made by catching a late Chargers game on NBC, checking out an ALCOA Fantastic Finish, and then watching Voyagers!.

However, I am forced to admit that Fouts just threw a whole lot. And, while he had a couple fantastic statistical seasons as a result, he's probably overrated or overloved. In any case, I think you are underestimating the impact that the offensive system and capabilities have on a QB.

I fully believe that Cutler would have excelled in an Air Coryell offense and many others would have as well. You asked to prove when the surroundings made a guy worse than he was. I say I am showing where the surroundings made a guy better. I don't think it's a stretch that the converse is true (and a tremendous basketball shoe).

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I never liked the Air Coryell style and I was never a fan of Fouts as a quarterback. Perhaps if Cutler were put in such a system his passing numbers would shine. Maybe that's even likely. But it seems to me that Cutler-led offenses are often struggling to score- regardless of the offensive coordinator. That was never an issue for Fouts. His problem was that the quick scoring of his offenses often had mediocre Charger defenses spending a lot of time on the field.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I have to go.

But, can we at least agree that Jon-Erik Hexum was taken from us too soon?

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Yes. Blanks can kill too. So sad.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He was so freaking hot.

Dan Fouts?

You're a strange bird.

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why did you watch voyagers?

Because I'm a nerd that likes history and Milt Rosenberg-like counterfactuals.

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That's burritoer than just saying Jon-Erik Hexum was hot.

There's nothing gay about history.

Except the Greek and Roman stuff.

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What's your favorite?

Smiling.

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Now you are the strange bird.

Was thinking favorite part of history.

This thread is a lollercoaster. Somebody dares to point out that Cutler is completing passes at a Skeltonesque rate, and we immediately get YA BUT ORKMON SUXES and THE ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS IS WINS BRAH. (I mean, you guys know his career winning percentage is basically identical to Mark Sanchez's, right?)

The numbers don't lie, and what the numbers say is that Cutler is having a really, really, really shitty year. I'd rather not get into another debate regarding the homosexuality of advanced statistical methods, so I'll refrain from posting links to FO and just stick with passer rating, which shows that Jay Cutler is having a fractionally better season than Michael Vick. Congrats to the Bears for having an elite defense that allows them to beat up on the weak sisters of the league, but the simple fact is that this passing offense is absolutely putrid.

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This is the only stat that matters.

Cutler needs to play better. The Oline needs to play better. Still, they are 6-1. I would rather have my team be at 6-1 right now than 4-3 but have Manning or Brady type QB numbers.

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I realize that meatball Bears fans must find something to complain about, but the beloved is 6-1 & is one of the best teams in the NFL. Enjoy the ride to the NFC championship games -vs- the Niners.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

That's fine. I'd rather be 4-3 against a real schedule with a Hall of Fame QB than be 6-1 against the WAC with a guy who's barely outplaying Blaine Gabbert.

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The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

Im assuming you're talking about the Broncos. The Pats schedule has been a joke so far.

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul