Yes, on a ball that hit Marshall in the hands.

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I found the bolded part hard to believe since in Grossman's best year he threw only 3 more TDs than INTs. I assume he had at least 3 or more fumbles.

Cutler threw for over 110 yards in the first half when the game was still somewhat in doubt. Of course if Cutler had put up big numbers in the second half of a rout, then people would be saying he put up meaningless numbers.

The pass to Davis that set up the first TD would not have been thrown by Campbell, Orton or Grossman. It would have been an imcompletion or dump off which would have resulted in a FG, not a TD. The PI Marshall drew in the endzone was set up by Cutler's scrambling and his arm (this was a 25 yard gain which doesn't reflect in Cutler's stats). Again Grossman, Orton or Campell would have probably thrown the ball away setting up another FG.

Cutler will make plays that sometimes make you scratch your head, but he will also make throws that few if any Bears QBs in the past would make that will lead to points.

Marshall has been great this year but he also dropped a TD pass, which by my count is now 3 TD passes he has dropped this season.

If Cutler threw interceptions/fumbled as often as Forte does I wouldn't have any issues with him. He fumbles the ball WAY more than Forte and he's the QB.

We can go through every game and find issues with other players. Davis drops weren't routine. Those were not perfectly thrown balls either. He threw the ball behind a WIDE OPEN Bennett and overthrew another WIDE OPEN receiver. He threw his weekly pick too.

Being the x-factor doesn't make you the most valuable. That's what Cutler is. He is the x-factor. With good to great Cutler the Bears are one of the best teams in the NFL. Problem is that guy only shows up a couple times a season for an entire game. Bad Cutler shows up a lot more than that.

False. 33 TD, 35 Ints in his 6 years/36 games with the Bears.

As of yesterday, Jay Cutler has 76 TD to 60 Int with the Bears in his 4 years, 51 games.

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The more I watch, the more I think this is a made up concept. If it was, his numbers wouldn't be so bad. Watching the red zone channel, you see QB's all over the league making passes just as impressive as Cutler. Josh Freeman and Andrew Luck are two names that come to mind even if we aren't talking about the elite QB's.

Cutler is putting up the numbers of a game manager. I don't think he really has any special talent. Being better than Kyle Orton isn't a talent.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Exactly. You always want to put 100% of the blame on Cutler. That is simply not the case. He deserves a lot of credit yesterday, and you refuse to give him any yet you are the first guy to call him out when he does poorly. You don't call out Hester, or Forte, or Wright when they have all had piss poor games in recent weeks.

Davis is terrible. The 2 throws he dropped 1 hit him in the chest as he slid down, the other he tried a 1 hand catch. Not sure what else a QB can do other than hit a guy in the numbers or the hands. The pick was off a deflected pass from Marshall. Not a great ball by any means, but a very catchable ball nonetheless.

That is exactly why he is the most valuable player on the team. Thanks for agreeing with me finally.

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So you admit he makes impressive passes?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Yes. Campbell is an NFL QB. Not having any reps all season and then going out and playing against the best defense in the NFL is tough. The game speed is completely different. It is my belief with 2 weeks of practice and an average defense Marshall would have won the game yesterday. With the field position they were given Craig Krenzel would have won that game.

Minnesota looked like shit yesterday, so that would have helped Campbell. They may have won, but they wouldn't have gotten 28 points. Because they were up big at halftime, the Vikes had to pass more than they wanted to. AP still got his 100 yards, but they couldn't keep running as much because your enemy Cutler lead the Bears offense to 3 TDs.

Campbell is in the game is a lot closer, which means AP gets more touches, which could mean the Bears lose.

#Cutler #MVB

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I'm only counting lost fumbles. Cutler actually fumbles the ball more than Grossman but he doesn't lose most of them.

110 yards in the first half is NOT great. That's a projected 220 yards for the entire game.

Grossman had no problem trying to fit a ball in a tight window. Even Orton would do it. That's an NFL throw. Cutler had all day to throw the ball yesterday. Arguing that Cutler has more talent than the QB's you mentioned above doesn't say a whole lot when you consider his production. Orton and Grossman produced more or at the same level being less talented and having less offensive talent around them. That's an indictment of Cutler.

Agreed. Cutler will make plays that few QB's can make. No one questions his talent. It's his performance and consistency that's questioned. That's why he's the x-factor. If Cutler has a great game you can pretty much guarantee a Bears victory.

He does. Cutler is an elite QB about 10% of the time.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

"Even Rex Grossman had fewer turnovers than touchdowns"

Then its pointed out that Grossman had more INTs than TDs with the Bears, so you change it to lost fumbles. Good work.

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I see you excited to defend Cutler again but I would suggest reading what I posted.

I would suggest you go back and read exactly what you posted. Rex Grossman did not have fewer turnovers than touchdowns with the Bears.

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Cutler is better than all of those guys and his bad play overshadows anything they do because of the expectations.

Just because it hits your had doesn't make it catchable. The first ball thrown to Davis wasn't a catchable as you pretend it was and the ball thrown the Marshall wasn't catchable at all.

That makes him the x-factor. Not the most valuable player. There is a difference. I know you know that.

Kind of agree (though it's not like it was a well-thrown ball), but he also had a couple of other throws that could have been picks. One interception was probably a fair representation of his day. However, he also probably missed out on a TD or two (one on Marshall's miss and the other on the play where the Bears receiver was tackled at the 1).

I also think some people who claim Cutler made a few elite-type throws aren't seeing too many other QBs. Cutler is a serviceable to very good QB who is one of the best ever for this franchise, thanks to its sad history at the position. He cannot be favorably compared to the great QBs around the league.

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Who do you think is the most valuable player on the Bears, Nas? You have to pick one player, you cannot say the defense.

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I was talking about for a season. Turnovers include interceptions and fumbles. Very few QB's fumble the ball more than Cutler. He doesn't have the "little hands" excuse either. When have the talent of Cutler you shouldn't even play poorly enough to be in a debate with Grossman and Orton.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... osRe00.htm

Grossman had 3 seasons with the Bears where he had more turnovers than TDs

2004, 2 TD 3 INTs (1 pass 1 rush TD)
2005 1 TD, 2 INTs
2007 4 TD, 7 INTs

Don't even have to get to fumbles before you have been proven wrong.

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I see you left 2006 out and Orton out of the discussion. I love that you're trying to prove that Cutler is better than Grossman. That alone says a lot about his play.

Cutler isn't even in the top 10. Marshall is the offensive MVP. It's hard to pick an individual player on defense but if I was forced to I would go with Tillman.

There you go again changing your point. I never said or even insinuated Cutler was better than Rex.

You said this; Its not a true statement. Orton had more TDs than INTs as a Bear. Rex had more TDs than INTs in 2006. Your statement is still wrong, and for some reason you don't admit it even though the numbers are right there for you.

Who are the other 9 players that are more valuable than Cutler?

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Wow. That might be the craziest thing I've read.

So..Marshall, Forte, Urlacher, Briggs, Peppers, Tillman, Bowman? Melton? Robbie? Davis?

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Team Cutler.

Why is it so hard for you to see interceptions + fumbles= Turnovers? Last year was the only year Cutler had more touchdowns than turnovers.

Why is this so hard for you to see? Grossman had 3 seasons where he had more TURNOVERS than TDs.

Ok? I never said this wasn't true.

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Cutler is the franchise QB but there hasn't been 1 game as a Bear that he's won for them. On the other hand he's lost about 10 games with his poor play. The entire defense as unit has been more valuable than him. Without them the Bears aren't a .500 team. When Cutler came here that was supposed to change. He's been worse than Orton even though he has more talent. That's a fact.

You seem to have a hard time with "facts" in this thread.

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The fact that we can debate Cutler's numbers in comparison to Orton's and Grossman's proves he hasn't lived up to his potential. The winning record argument was one Orton and Grossman's supporters leaned on all the time. We shouldn't have to lean on that for Cutler. He is by far more talented than both and he has more talent around him. This is the problem that you all continue to ignore. Cutler just hasn't gotten it done. This is coming from a guy that made excuses for him his first few years here.

But I'm not debating Cutler's numbers against anybody's. I'm not even debating numbers. I am posting Rex Grossman TDs vs INTs while he was with the Bears. I pointed out that the INTs were higher and you've made a bunch of nonsensical posts since then in this thread. If your point was that Cutler hasn't lived up to potential (yet) then I agree with you, but you're all over the place in this thread an that last post you just made is about the only one that made any sense at all.


Quarterback is not even in the top 10 in terms of MVP on a team. You expect us to believe that shit? The only QB in the league you could even make a case for not being in the top 10 most important on his own team would be Mark Sanchez I think even he would be about 7 or 8 on Fireman Ed's list.

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Last two years, Bears are 14-5 when Cutler starts and 1-6 when he doesn't. So..there's that. He's clearly not elite, but to not include him as top 10 mvb is crazy.

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Team Cutler.