Only one way to find out...

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This is my signature...

If murder were illegal, would no one be killed?

I just don't think gun control is the problem in this circumstance. This is just an opinion. So chill.

Although I am a proponent of gun ownership, I see little to no value in these assault rifles.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I think if you make guns harder to obtain you'll stop SOME of this non sense. Not all of it...but some is better than none

Just because a shooting takes place does not mean laws should change. People get emotional about events and they want to come up with rash ideas. If you are emotionally sucked in this is not a moment to have a rational discussion.

If you think of it like a pendulum a shooting makes some people think you need stricter gun laws, but another look at that would be for more people to be allowed to use guns to defend themselves. If no one is allowed to defend themselves that makes everyone a far greater target. Chicago has plenty of gun control laws and that never stopped the gang members.

Unstable people will always find ways to commit crimes. There are plenty of people who caused bodily harm with things other than handguns. The only question is, "Do people want to trade their freedoms for a feeling of security?"

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Recent gun law changes in favor of weapons carriers in DC and Virginia refute that assertion.

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The whole guns don't kill people...people kill people should be rephrased. Lunatics with guns kill people

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Lunatics with diesel fuel and fertilizer kill people too.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

So do governments with bombs

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

F'sho.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Thanks for being honest.

Jerk.

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It's what I do.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Yeah a sad day...

Facts though are not ale to be disputed. There is no difference between a semi automatic rifle for hunting and a so-called assault rifle other than they may look cooler, meaner or some other reason for some? A AK-47 uses a bullet nearly identical to a 30-06.

The media confuse semi-auto and auto all the time as it is what they want to do. There is no such thing as having a legal automatic weapon or modifying one to be so in this country.

In my last Army years as a matter of fact they changed the M16 to to a M16-A2 so that you couldn't even fire full auto only 3 round bursts. After 3 you are way off your target.

So this guy was a turd for sure but it has nothing to do with guns. And even if I give you the gun thing he certainly did not have an automatic weapon.

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Elections have consequences.

I just don't get why people don't accept the simple and clear fact that if we had more legislation written and enacted targeting guns, gun-related deaths would be all but solved in just a matter of time.

We continue, even today, to reaffirm and enact legislation that makes illegal such horrible acts such as murder, rape, arson, stealing, violence, drunk driving, financial fraud, and all sorts of other human ills and just take a look at the news .... you never hear of these things happening, and why? Because of continued grandstanding and redundant legislation, that's why.

Such a simple fix ... why won't someone think of the children and make more laws when they're so effective at eliminating distressing societal issues?

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Last I checked murder is illegal. WYC. I get the argument though.

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I could just scarf you up like a little blueberry muffin, Don.

Good post.

If there was a button that would eliminate all guns that ever were and ever will be would you press it? I'll admit that's not the best way to frame an argument but that's really the only solution to eliminating gun violence. Until that time (which will never happen) I think it's fair to consider extending the debate about guns outside the realm of "guns don't kill people, people kill people" circular logic inanity.

If the fetishization of guns could be cut down just slightly I think everyone would be better off. I don't understand how when twenty kids can get murdered by guns there were owned by their teacher there are a legion of people willing to step up to the plate and argue that we need MORE guns to protect them. A handful of dumb motherfuckers die from drinking too much Four Loko and that shit is taken off the shelves in a month. One asshole puts a bomb in his shoe and now we all have to take our fucking shoes off before we can get on an airplane. But 20 kids die from getting shot in the face and NOTHING HAPPENS because guns = freedom. That's some fucked up shit.

This isn't directed at you Don. Your quote just sort of fit in for the rant I wanted to go off on.

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Yep. Not bad.

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No offense taken; honestly don't think I would've been taken aback without the codicil, but the notion is appreciated nonetheless.

However, I would politely suggest you don't understand what you wrote.

Aside from the nonsensical "button" scenario (which, btw, I would not press because I'm not a fan of the memory hole, ignorance is bliss way of living .... frankly, it's for pussies), you end up actually demonstrating why reactionary laws are the fodder for the simple minds amongst us (which I don't suspect you are a member of .... I said member).

As you clearly (and correctly) point out, the Four Loko and shoe nonsense has had no real positive impact on anything regarding people's safety (whatever that may mean from one to another person) ... but then you misrepresent the so-called "guns = freedom" idea as - at least insofar as I can infer from the context given - that people should make the same empty-headed reactionary laws regarding guns, but all of the sudden since it's about guns it's not stupid anymore.

To return the courtesy, the following is not directed at you, it's just a statement I feel is apt .... the dumbest folk in this whole gun-control mess are those that make emotional, and thus by definition irrational, reactionary statements; the most dangerous people in this whole gun-control mess are those that seek to profit - through monetary and/or political gain - by rather easily manipulating the aforementioned dumbest folk.

Once that occurs - and it unquestionably will, like any other hot-button socio-political topic - it's up to those who realize that it's not about whose side wins, but how close we can get to everyone winning by reasonable and intelligent research, discussion, and striving for what's best for all, not what's best for their "team".

That's how it's supposed to work, anyway .... we shall see if it does.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I don't know Don, this whole thing has got me...upset I guess is the best word for it and it has a lot to do with what you're saying. That the emotional/reactionary response is always what wins (but not necessarily for the better). The fact that after all of this the voices that we hear the clearest are those at the fringes. That is what upsets me. I have nothing against gun ownership. What I have a problem with is a culture that puts so much emotional stock into a tool whose only purpose is to kill or maim. I just don't get it, I don't get guns. I'm not going to stand in the way of sane people trying to own guns but I'm always going to have a problem with people whose go-to response to gun violence is: "make sure people have more guns." I feel like that is a willfully ignorant position to take at best and outright dishonest at it's worst. There is a way to curb gun violence because other countries that aren't Nazi Germany have done so, it just upsets me that it's probably not going to happen in my lifetime.

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Ok assuming that laws won't work, what are we to do?

Throw up our hands?

Im not saying you're wrong about more laws but I don't know what alternative measure should be taken.

Doing nothing seems wrong

Exactly. I know it's not an exact parallel but it makes me think of looking at drinking age laws like this: well, there are underage drinkers and they are going to drink regardless of the laws, so fuck it. Everyone can drink! Give your two year old a beer.

I'm a realist about the gun issue, a realist in that they are here and they are not going away nor should they be eliminated entirely. Now let's make sure that those who should not have them never have them.

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The thing is Connecticut has some pretty tough gun laws just like Illinois/Chicago.

And going by what has been "reported" thus far, the guns were registered/purchased by his mother. If that is true, did the mother buy them for the 20 year old adult because he wasn't able to purchase them because of those strict laws? If that is the case than the laws did their job and the mother circumvented them.

If not, it seems the mother bought some guns legally, the murderer stole them and went on the rampage.

Either way, if the reports are true (and who knows because everyone had everything wrong yesterday) than it wasn't lax gun laws that allowed him to access those firearms.

So when I read Yahoo News this morning on my video scope and see the headline "Renewed Calls for Gun Control," I don't see how more laws would have prevented this crime. And that isn't to say that more thorough gun laws that are actually enforced wouldn't help, it just means they probably wouldn't have made a difference in this case.

And then there is the question of his mental state.

I think a good first step would be to actually enforce the existing laws. as is noted time and time again Chicago has strict gun laws yet endless bloodshed. it seems like often when i read a story involving gun violence the person is essentially sentenced to a slap on the wrist/probation, etc.

i say if you're a felon caught in mere possession of a firearm make it a 3-5 year mandatory sentence. no probation
if you actually discharge the weapon like S-Jax in the parking lot of a strip club, make it 5-7
hell, make it the death penalty if you actually murder someone as a result

just saying, the laws as they are don't work because no one fears any serious repercussion. they know chances are great they'll either get away with altogether or it will be a short sentence and they'll be back out on the street again soon wrecking havoc. now, i don't know the actual reasons for the lenient sentences, that may be opening a can of worms....could be because of prison overcrowding, could be the city wanting to 'cook the books' so to speak and make it appear as if violent crime is lower than it actually is...i don't know. but bottom line i agree with those here who have basically said more laws probably wouldn't have prevented this. i just think actually following through with harsh and severe penalties for those who ARE caught will eventually serve as a deterrent. again, some people just don't give a fuck plain and simple but i think it would be a good start

We need tougher anti-mom-property theft laws, maybe.

To be fair, these ideas wouldn't have any sort of effect on the situation we are talking about. A person willing to kill 20 children and himself isn't concerned about repercussions. And I doubt the Mom illegally owned the guns. And if she did, that means this mentally challenged kid wouldn't have a parent in his life for 3-5 years or whatever, which I'm not sure helps either.

i agree, it wouldn't have had an effect on this situation. i don't really think ANYTHING could have. the unfortunate fact is, despite whatever laws and safeguards may exist, some lunatic wanting to do something like this probably will be able to if he or she really wants to. i was speaking more to bryans larger point of what do we do, just throw our hands up. i'm saying if we enforced the laws we already had and put people who shouldn't be owning guns away for a long time, at the very least we'd have those people off the streets for a long period of time as opposed to back out in 3 months or on parole/probation

Maybe instead of enacting more laws the focus should be on people stopping crazy people who show warning signs for destructive behavior. Often the shooting is not the first red flag. They said with that Colorado shooting that the lady at the university knew there was a potential risk with the person who was the shooter. In some cases with school shootings the students who bring the weapons to school have been bullied. I think maybe the role of violence on TV, video games and music is also a negative influence on certain individuals who commit these crimes. People always want to exonerate the influences that help to inspire these shooters.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

I agree ,our whole attitude towards people who are mentally imbalanced/sick is messed up in the country. As much as I like Regan,he totally fucked up by closing the mental health hospitals and dumping all those people on the street with no support/controls. In Illinois for instance no matter how crazy a person i acting unless they do something totally fucked up the most they can be involuntary confined is three days. Did this guy ,like the rest of the mass shooters over the last 10 years,show warning triggers? Yet when it comes to budget time what gets cut first? Money for mental health and the developmentally disabled. Hell,even the so called "peoples"Governor Quinn played that card. We need to remove the social stigma from mental illness and start treating it like we do other illnesses. There where fewer spree and mass killings like this in the older days because we locked up people who showed warning triggers before they went off on a spree killing. The thing is the reason why there was an outcry was not that where locked up but in the living conditions.
I also agree that we need tougher sentences for gun crimes not drug crimes. Just think of how less crowded our prisons would be without all the people who are in there for pot crimes. Now I am not saying all should be released ,anyone who has a violent crime attached to the crime should stay in prison but the rest,like simple possession should be let go and their records expunged.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

I would like to know why a mom in suburban CT needs a gun like this:

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You realize that the assault rifle in that pic is simply decoration right? there is no difference between that and a deer rifle other than it is made of black metal and plastic rather than steel and wood.

I am not gonna fight any gun fight today but some facts are that there are no legally available fully automatic guns for sale in the US. If you have one or even the proof that you are trying to alter one you will go to federal prison. An assault rifle per se is simply an appearance or a semi automatic version of a military rifle. It does not shoot any more rounds or bigger damage than any other rifle.

Again, this is a tragedy but get your heads right. Is a 9 inch "rambo" knife really any deadlier than your Ginsu?

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Elections have consequences.