http://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/pl ... mes-harden

Just thought I would check back in on the bearded one. Unless I am mistaken didn't Danny say this was just a guy of no consequence? Pretty good season stat line that I think most NBA teams would welcome.

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Elections have consequences.

Dan said, "He's just a sixth man! That was a terrible contract extension by Houston. They're basketball stupid!"

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Obviously what Dan said was stupid.

But do you think Harden can be the best player on a championship team?

I don't.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

He doesn't have to be the best.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

Yes.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I agree with FarveFan.

Harden was a damn fine, top flight player on the Thunder and he is proving to be one of the leagues best or close to it with the spotlight on him in Houston.

Size/Strength/Athleticism + skill and ability to play defense = Excellent player.

Putting Harden on this current Bulls team even without Rose would probably make them the #1 seed in the East.

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It definitely would put us right up there with Miami, LA, SA, and OKC.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I am not saying he is a bad player, he is an EXCELLENT player. But I just think he needs to be the sidekick instead of the man. He is 2013 Scottie Pippen. Pippen couldn't win a title as the best player on a team and neither will Harden.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

He reminds me of a better shooting version of Wade in '06. I expect him to get better and I think he'll be a top 5 player by the end of next season. I think Houston is a player and a year away from being Western Conference contenders.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Harden is having a good year, but it didnt help that he was absolutely horrid in the Finals last year.

So was LeBron in 2011. I really think that most of the exposure Bernstein got to Harden was just the Finals, which explains why his opinion was so misinformed at the beginning of this season.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Im not defending Bernstein, Im just saying The Thunder had reason.

And not everyone gets a second and third shot at the finals. The fact that Harden was so bad does not bode well for him

He got shafted on the MVP and brought that 93-94 Bulls team to 55 wins and the Conference Finals where they were legitimately fucked by the refs. That team was bad and weren't even supposed to sniff the playoffs. Pippen brought them there and proved he was a legit star and a leader.

He would turn around and bring another bad bulls team to the playoffs the year after.

I dont blame the Thunder for trading him. It didn't hurt their team and it helped Harden greatly as an individual player.

What do you mean it doesn't bode well for Harden? You mean as a predictive factor? I dont think it has any meaning going forward. Tony Parker was so bad in the 2003 Finals that the Spurs spent the summer wining and dining Kidd and then four years later Parker was Finals MVP. I wouldn't read much into a 3rd year player getting shut down by the best defensive player in the league over a sample size of 5 games.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Good points. I am sure Harden will have some excuses to roll out when he fails to take a team to a championship as well.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I dont think thats even close to true.

They werent going to be the best team in the NBA anymore, but they were still good. Certainly they were a top 8 team in the East

That's silly. If Jordan never retires and the Bulls win 8 straight titles, is Hakeem no longer an all time great because he never wins a title?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So you just completely dismiss that he was bad? I know its doesnt mean he'll be terrible forever, but its certainly not a good thing

What does that have to do with Harden being able to take a team to a championship?

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

No, it's true.

They weren't expected to make the playoffs. You cut Jordan out and the Bulls have Pippen as the #1 Stunner (Which he was) and a cast consisting of Steve Kerr, Pete Meyers, Beef Wenington, JoJo English, Corie Blount....

I guess if it's a choice between dismissing it, or using it as a predictive factor that he will be bad again, I will dismiss it.

It's not a good thing, but it was a 5 game sample size in a 3.5 year career. It obviously wasnt enough to keep me from saying before this season that Harden is a franchise player and the Rockets made a great trade.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I see that is says Most experts picked them to not make the playoffs on Wikipedia but I think thats incorrect

BJ Armstrong started the all star game. Horace Grant was a reserve. There is no way people were picking that team to lose the 55 games it would take to not make the playoffs.

Well, my man, you think wrong!

BJ made the All-Star game, great, I'm sure his production really helped make up for the loss of Michael Jordan.

Your position seemed to equate anyone who doesnt take a team to a title as being not great. Im asking if you think that would've been true for Hakeem.

Or forget the hypothetical. Are players like Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, or Charles Barkley not all time great players?

My obvious point is that if Harden never wins a title because he never has a good enough supporting cast, but averages 27-5-5 over the next 8 years while making 8 all star games, he would still be a GREAT player, and would be good enough to be the #1 on a championship team, just like guys like West, Elgin, and Chuck were.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Are you saying a team with 3 all stars overachieved by making the playoffs?

and yes, BJ Armstrong playing at an all star level certainly helped cushion the blow

Yeah I wasn't trying to say anything like that. Guys like Baylor, West, and Barkely are clearly all time greats.

Harden may get to that level,but I don't see it. But even if he does just like Pippen, I just do not see him being able to take a team to a championship as its best player.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

The Bulls were written off as championship contenders but anyone who said they wouldnt make the playoffs was exaggerating for effect or downright dumb.

Pippen, Armstrong, Grant, and Kukoc were not missing the playoffs.

Will you at least admit that you're being sort of unfair to Pip? He had one year to prove it in his prime(two if you count 2000 as the very tail end of his prime. I dont).

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Sure it is being a little unfair to Pip. I love Pippen, he is one of my all time favorite players. But when I look at things objectively no matter when you take Jordan off those teams I just cannot see Pip leading them to a championship.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."