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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Hopefully Catholics haven't discovered porn sites yet.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:32 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Think of all the money you could have saved it those parents used birth control.



I don't save money based upon other peoples choices.

My wife and I reassess and make the best choices we can for our children. Free will is a glorious gift.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
And i would like to hear your thoughts on why no private grade school when you have a moment.

It's a colossal waste of money to start with. People spending what amounts to the value of a new car every year on schooling are sinking away valuable savings. No child is going to get any advantage at such a young age by going to private school. You could probably argue the merits of private high school or universities, but does anyone really need to shell out a large percentage of their income for 1st grade tuition? Your child success mainly has to do with how well of a job the parent is doing. If you're a terrible parent the child will probably do poorly in any public school or private school. If you are a good parent, your child will probably do well in any public school or private school.

Your story of your child hearing another kid talk about pornography is pointless. They could hear that in a private or public school setting, or even on the playground at the park. Did you really switch schools just because what your child heard a classmate talk about? You're going to be in for a scare once they get to high school. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Hopefully Catholics haven't discovered porn sites yet.
This.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:38 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
And i would like to hear your thoughts on why no private grade school when you have a moment.

It's a colossal waste of money to start with. People spending what amounts to the value of a new car every year on schooling are sinking away valuable savings. No child is going to get any advantage at such a young age by going to private school. You could probably argue the merits of private high school or universities, but does anyone really need to shell out a large percentage of their income for 1st grade tuition? Your child success mainly has to do with how well of a job the parent is doing. If you're a terrible parent the child will probably do poorly in any public school or private school. If you are a good parent, your child will probably do well in any public school or private school.

Your story of your child hearing another kid talk about pornography is pointless. They could hear that in a private or public school setting, or even on the playground at the park. Did you really switch schools just because what your child heard a classmate talk about? You're going to be in for a scare once they get to high school. :shock:

Agree with everything Douchebag just posted. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Let me tell how well my parents sending me to a Catholic boarding grade school worked out for me.


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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
You could probably argue the merits of private high school or universities
I dunno...LoHo teaches at DePaul.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:42 pm 
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My two sons are two years apart. Right now we are in the midst of paying for 8 years of college in 7 years (the oldest is interning at Intel for a year).

As previously noted, the directional schools seem to be the better value. The oldest is at Northern Michigan (Marquette MI) while the youngest is at SIU. And NMU is actually less expensive, even for us out-of-staters, than SIU.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:40 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Let me tell how well my parents sending me to a Catholic boarding grade school worked out for me.


Boarding school?

I think someone needs a hug.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
And i would like to hear your thoughts on why no private grade school when you have a moment.

It's a colossal waste of money to start with. People spending what amounts to the value of a new car every year on schooling are sinking away valuable savings. No child is going to get any advantage at such a young age by going to private school. You could probably argue the merits of private high school or universities, but does anyone really need to shell out a large percentage of their income for 1st grade tuition? Your child success mainly has to do with how well of a job the parent is doing. If you're a terrible parent the child will probably do poorly in any public school or private school. If you are a good parent, your child will probably do well in any public school or private school.

Your story of your child hearing another kid talk about pornography is pointless. They could hear that in a private or public school setting, or even on the playground at the park. Did you really switch schools just because what your child heard a classmate talk about? You're going to be in for a scare once they get to high school. :shock:

Agree with everything Douchebag just posted. :shock:


I consider religious education important and I do not feel CCD is adequate. I would rpb you with an argument that grade school private education is more critical than high school or college if this is a priority.

Take the religious aspect out of it and Douchebag's conclusion may be correct (depending on where you live) but his reasoning is faulty. There is a whole lot of difference between schools and children will certainly be placed at an advantage. The CPS gifted schools and some of the magnets expose the children to some jaw dropping activities from a young age. As Bernstien has detailed, his kid is learning Mandarin. Decatur Classical teaches Latin from the day you walk in the door. I could give you some other examples.

So yes, private v. public is not really the issue, but you are fooling yourself if you think that your kid will walk out of eight grade with the same education and opportunites irrespective of the grade school.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Thankfully it got shut down during Christmas break when I was in 4th grade.


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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:00 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Thankfully it got shut down during Christmas break when I was in 4th grade.


I think I was still running to my parents bedroom if I got scared at night in 4th grade. I cannot imagine being sent away. It sounds traumatic.

From a parent's viewpoint, it upsets me thinking about the day my kids will leave for college. I'd never be able to send them away in grade school. That said there are a lot of people who do.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:05 pm 
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bye the way, remember that I was one of those guys who was nice to you when you eventually go postal

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
And i would like to hear your thoughts on why no private grade school when you have a moment.

It's a colossal waste of money to start with. People spending what amounts to the value of a new car every year on schooling are sinking away valuable savings. No child is going to get any advantage at such a young age by going to private school. You could probably argue the merits of private high school or universities, but does anyone really need to shell out a large percentage of their income for 1st grade tuition? Your child success mainly has to do with how well of a job the parent is doing. If you're a terrible parent the child will probably do poorly in any public school or private school. If you are a good parent, your child will probably do well in any public school or private school.

Your story of your child hearing another kid talk about pornography is pointless. They could hear that in a private or public school setting, or even on the playground at the park. Did you really switch schools just because what your child heard a classmate talk about? You're going to be in for a scare once they get to high school. :shock:



If we leave our child in an atmosphere that is unhealthy to him, I'm a shitty parent. And I don't feel it's any disagreement here that when the class alpha male starts encouraging visits to pornographic websites, it's probably not healthy. We were in a position to put him in another public school, or a private school. We made the right choice for him

We have children that were entirely educated in private schools, and others that were almost entirely educated in public schools. They each offer different opportunities. And pitfalls. I appreciate your concern about when he gets to high school, but this isn't our first trip to the rodeo.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:32 pm 
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I was watching cinemax late night when babysat at 6. Probably seeing stolen playboy mags by 7 or 8...and I was an exceptional child, adolescent, and young adult.


Because my parents are fucking awesome....not bc of where i went to school.
(Public grade and Junior high, catholic h.s.).

Btw, Catholics are very aware of porn sites...likely the most represented religion.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:06 am 
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My oldest is in his first year of pre-pharmacy, at the median-cost in state school, spent just under $22K for tuition, room and board. six more years to go!!


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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:18 am 
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I went to Western Illinois for my first semester. After I decided drinking was more important than going to class, I ended up being asked back to their local community college. Instead, I went to College of DuPage, and while it wasn't the fun that dorm life was, I did get into the honors program there where every honors course you took was free. A little bit of planning, and I basically had two years free of college (minus the semester of party time at Western.) Totally different experiences, but I only paid off about half the student loan I would have if I went to a four year school.

School prices are getting frighteningly out of hand. I would pay for it over and over for engineering, mathematics, computer science, etc., but I really have a hard time advising college to someone who wants to major in history, animal behavior, women's studies, philosophy, etc. You need to be able to use that degree out the door for it to be worth your time.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:32 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
It's a colossal waste of money to start with. People spending what amounts to the value of a new car every year on schooling are sinking away valuable savings. No child is going to get any advantage at such a young age by going to private school. You could probably argue the merits of private high school or universities, but does anyone really need to shell out a large percentage of their income for 1st grade tuition?


The most important grades in school are probably prek-3. That is when you build your base of knowledge. Kids who struggle and never fix it in younger grades rarely turn it around in junior high and high school. That is the responsibility of the parents and the school. In fact most of our kids attend public high school.

As for the waste of money it depends on the school and the district you are in. We get kids from four different public school districts. The one whose test scores are very high we get few kids from which is understandable. We get most of our kids from the worst performing district near us. When we get junior high transfers they are typically almost a year behind academically from that district. The others are typically on par with our kids.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:38 am 
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If I may...
Student loan availability is one factor, though I think it is not the main factor...yes there is more $$$ for student loans now, however there are more students so the amount per student is less. Personally, I would love to see student loan reform (tighter restrictions/usage demands) because I see way too many students coming to class in brand new $700 dollar shoes, new iphone, ipad and macbook but that cry poverty when they are asked to buy a textbook.

The bigger factor, imo, is administrative bloat. This article explains it:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-14/bureaucrats-paid-250-000-feed-outcry-over-college-costs.html
My favorite line: "Purdue says bureaucratic expansion hasn't led to higher tuition." So let me get this straight, bureaucratic positions at all universities have increased by 60% (10x the growth of tenure track positions) and the example of Purdue's tuition has increased by...60% at that time but they are not related?

And about the point regarding small liberal-arts colleges. I think that the main advantage of small lib arts colleges would be for students who are planning to get a graduate degree in a highly competitive field. I have heard and seen from personal experience that graduates of small schools have a better chance in getting in graduate/medical/law schools because they have more professor-student interactions (insert sex joke here) which leads to more knowledge and better recommendation letters. Currently, I write all rec letters for students who do research for me and have a really good success rate and getting them into graduate school. While I was in graduate school, I would write the rec letters for undergraduates who wanted the professor I was working with to write them letters because he had no idea who they were, let alone anything they did in the lab.

I do not get as sweet a deal as PittMike, but I do get 75% off at any Penn State campus for my three kids. Which is nice because they get their choice of 20 something campuses.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:48 am 
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My wife works at a liberal arts college and gets the full tuition paid for if we have any kids to send there. Hell, I could go get another degree if I wanted. I think the only thing they would have to pay for would be some kind of basic student fee that would cover their id card, intramural stuff, gym pass...just a few hundred per academic year. + books. I am pretty sure everyone except athletics coaches at the college receive this benefit as long as they are full time. Professors, faculty, staff. If you work full time on the grounds crew then your kid is hooked up.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:15 am 
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doug - evergreen park wrote:
I was watching cinemax late night when babysat at 6. Probably seeing stolen playboy mags by 7 or 8...and I was an exceptional child, adolescent, and young adult.


Because my parents are fucking awesome....not bc of where i went to school.
(Public grade and Junior high, catholic h.s.).

Btw, Catholics are very aware of porn sites...likely the most represented religion.


and you are exceptional as an aging hipster as well

whatever the largest religion in the world outside of countries that ban the internet, that is likely the most represented religion. People like sex.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:19 am 
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I do think homeschooling or private school is a great difference in education at any level. Whether it's classroom sizes, teachers or religious aspects of the schooling, it's all better than the best public schools.

However, as far as college goes I think the prices are clearly inflated. I would be cautious about sending my kid to any state school as they could end up using mom and dad's money to get wasted and hook up with people of the opposite sex.

I don't think it's unreasonable to send your kid to community college for two years for general elective courses. If they are a serious student the extra time should prepare them for transferring to a school with a major in mind. A community college is probably around $100 a credit hour and that's under $2,000 a semester. Based on those numbers earlier in the thread of $45,000 you've already saved $82,000 in just two years and the kid can transfer to any school they want.

I think there are important elements to college in terms of learning to be an adult, being responsible, following through with schoolwork and preparing for a career. But honestly a lot of college is overrated. A lot of the schools pump out students with degrees where there are no jobs in those fields. Plus the amount of debt incurred by students makes them have to pay loans for many years after college. Given the fact that the degree is not a guarantee of a great job, someone going into debt for a college degree is certainly a gamble.

I know that a lot of older people sort of look down on college grads that move back in with their parents when they graduate. But honestly if someone is broke and paying off loans living with the folks is really one of the few ways to make a serious dent in those loans.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:23 am 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
Public school was ok when I was a kid, but it's a totally different animal now.

No celebration or even mention of Christmas, kids can't wear Halloween costumes to school. . .

Plus, I don't want my kids having Obama-centric textbooks. His administration has made a point of saying that they would like to "indoctrinate" our youth with their bullshit, and I'm not going to be a part of that. It's well worth the extra $400-$500 per month, if you ask me.


I saw a coming attraction for a documentary about the board in Texas charged with reviewing and seemingly rewriting the textbooks in that state. It was a decidedly un obama group.

If you are sending your kid to a private, religious based educational school, they will be exposed to indoctrination.

$500 per month, per kid and it can go up from there. I think that lab school on the south side is 22K per kid. Francis Parker is in that ballpark as well. The Sacred Heart Schools in Rogers Park are around 15.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:42 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Q.Bovifs wrote:
Public school was ok when I was a kid, but it's a totally different animal now.

No celebration or even mention of Christmas, kids can't wear Halloween costumes to school. . .

Plus, I don't want my kids having Obama-centric textbooks. His administration has made a point of saying that they would like to "indoctrinate" our youth with their bullshit, and I'm not going to be a part of that. It's well worth the extra $400-$500 per month, if you ask me.


I saw a coming attraction for a documentary about the board in Texas charged with reviewing and seemingly rewriting the textbooks in that state. It was a decidedly un obama group.

If you are sending your kid to a private, religious based educational school, they will be exposed to indoctrination.

$500 per month, per kid and it can go up from there. I think that lab school on the south side is 22K per kid. Francis Parker is in that ballpark as well. The Sacred Heart Schools in Rogers Park are around 15.


Your experience with private schools is limited. Our son goes to a private school operated by a group of Catholic parents. There are Catholics, Hindus, Muslims and Baptists there that I am aware of. There may be other faiths too.

Children of other faiths are not required to take catechism classes. Some do, others do not. If you are trying to say that indoctrination includes watching kids of various backgrounds successfully work and study together while respecting the individual freedoms of each family, then may i suggest that faith lived well is naturally attractive, not indoctrination.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:45 am 
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My two children went to junior college the first two years (We paid for). They than attended the college of their choice (Northeastern & Roosevelt). About 18 months after graduating,they were both debt free.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:08 pm 
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$78,000 a year for full sail and all the kid is doing id D.J. ing at clubs in Orlando.
DJ Tranquil if any of you younger guys ever hear his stuff let me know if it is any good so I know I'M getting
the most out of that 78k :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:44 pm 
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Last year I applied for financial aid for my grad classes spring semester. The tuition was a little over 2 grand. I was offered two choices. An 1750 dollar loan or a 9000 dollar loan. I'm guessing a lot of people take the larger amount and go on a spending spree.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:46 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Last year I applied for financial aid for my grad classes spring semester. The tuition was a little over 2 grand. I was offered two choices. An 1750 dollar loan or a 9000 dollar loan. I'm guessing a lot of people take the larger amount and go on a spending spree.


Correct.


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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:18 pm 
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Psycory wrote:
If I may...
Student loan availability is one factor, though I think it is not the main factor...yes there is more $$$ for student loans now, however there are more students so the amount per student is less. Personally, I would love to see student loan reform (tighter restrictions/usage demands) because I see way too many students coming to class in brand new $700 dollar shoes, new iphone, ipad and macbook but that cry poverty when they are asked to buy a textbook.

The bigger factor, imo, is administrative bloat. This article explains it:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-14/bureaucrats-paid-250-000-feed-outcry-over-college-costs.html
My favorite line: "Purdue says bureaucratic expansion hasn't led to higher tuition." So let me get this straight, bureaucratic positions at all universities have increased by 60% (10x the growth of tenure track positions) and the example of Purdue's tuition has increased by...60% at that time but they are not related?

And about the point regarding small liberal-arts colleges. I think that the main advantage of small lib arts colleges would be for students who are planning to get a graduate degree in a highly competitive field. I have heard and seen from personal experience that graduates of small schools have a better chance in getting in graduate/medical/law schools because they have more professor-student interactions (insert sex joke here) which leads to more knowledge and better recommendation letters. Currently, I write all rec letters for students who do research for me and have a really good success rate and getting them into graduate school. While I was in graduate school, I would write the rec letters for undergraduates who wanted the professor I was working with to write them letters because he had no idea who they were, let alone anything they did in the lab.

I do not get as sweet a deal as PittMike, but I do get 75% off at any Penn State campus for my three kids. Which is nice because they get their choice of 20 something campuses.


I agree with your point that students are much more likely to receive detailed and therefore more effective recommendation letters at a small private college or university than they are at a larger public institution. But that's not always the case. I did my PhD work at a large state institution where I independently designed and taught several courses as an advanced grad student. As a result, I was frequently asked to write recommendation letters for law school, med school, and grad school applications. Over the course of my grad career, I probably wrote more than 35 recommendations, all of them for A students. Not one of my letters was shorter than 2.5 pages, single-spaced. For students who had taken multiple courses with me, the letters were frequently more detailed. The vast majority of my students fared extremely well in the application process, moving on to a number of top programs across the country. On a few occasions, I had members of admission committees call or email to thank me for the thoroughness of my appraisals.

As a faculty member who now reviews hundreds of grad applications each year, I now know why my letters stood out. Many recommendations are approximately two or three paragraphs long, riddled with typos or grammatical errors, and written so broadly that they are almost completely useless. Mind you, these letters are frequently sent in support of students with sterling credentials from top academic institutions. There is also a genre of letter--written by "superstar" scholars--that are annoying because they are pretty close to form letters. The recommender and student are clearly relying on the reputation of the scholar as persuasive evidence of the student's potential. This trick works for many people, but not for me. Just to annoy the complacent asshats writing pro forma recs, I call them at their offices and make them talk specifically about students who are applying to work with me. By the end of our conversations, I think many of them realize they would have been better off writing a thorough letter from the start.

In any event, good, specific recommendations; well-written, compelling personal statements; and effective writing samples are the application elements I value most highly for admission purposes. Today I still write my letters with the same level of detail I used as a grad student. For my own grad students entering the job market, I am, of course, even more detailed. I also make sure I know where my students are applying for jobs and pick up the phone to call people I know on search committees. Some advisors do this, and some don't--and I think that shows in job placement rates. I am happy to do this for my students because I basically make them agree to a list of responsibilities they must fulfill (beyond the normal curricular requirements) when I decide to take them on: Typically I expect them to write one publishable paper from their first-year courses; to present at least two papers at major conferences and publish a second paper in their second year, and so on. Some applicants are intimidated by this approach because they don't realize I am doing them a favor. The "cool" profs who let you do whatever you want so you can "find yourself" in grad school are not necessarily the ones you want as dissertation advisors. I had one of those and he is now a very close friend. But he probably cost me an additional two or three years in school because I needed to assemble a competitive CV at the end of my studies rather than doing it from the start. And he's not one for "pushing" his students on the job market, either.

This is a long way of saying that the degree to which students establish close relationships with faculty members generally makes a HUGE difference in the degree to which they can realize their career aspirations. But being savvy about which faculty members with whom you ally yourself is also very important. Sometimes young and hungry grad students or faculty members can be more effective mentors than senior faculty who are resting on their laurels.

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 Post subject: Re: cost of college
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:08 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
This is a long way of saying that the degree to which students establish close relationships with faculty members generally makes a HUGE difference in the degree to which they can realize their career aspirations. But being savvy about which faculty members with whom you ally yourself is also very important. Sometimes young and hungry grad students or faculty members can be more effective mentors than senior faculty who are resting on their laurels.

This paragraph is dead on. I guess this was what I meant about the faculty/student interaction part of my discussion. What you say here is exactly what we tell our graduating seniors who are looking at graduate schools. Line yourself with tenure-track assistant professors, my grad adviser was a TT assistant professor who I wanted to work with b/c he worked with a big name in grad school but that person was getting close to retirement. Through my work with my adviser, I got a bunch of publications and a tenure track job...which is a miracle in itself.

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