I agree. It's nice that everyone but Seacrest avoided the name calling. Everyone else was civil.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not attempting to talk for DT, but here is my take on this statement.

Of course I seek forgiveness from God and others for wrongs done. But that in no way earns or keeps my salvation. I do those things because I have been given salvation by God. It is the same with other good works. I do not do good works to earn or keep my salvation, but because I have been given salvation.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I think Vatican II went a long way toward clarifying your first statement. You can put God first while still serving a family. It's the universal call to holiness.

And by radical I mean, trying to live the Our Father in it's most simplest interpretation.

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I reckon that's good enough. That sounds like a left-handed compliment, it's not meant to be. It's mostly I don't feel like typing another mini screed especially in light of a good enough response that I'd basically be regurgitating and writing nothing new, kinda like at the moment.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I think your focus is off. I don't look at practicing my faith as trying to build up chits for salvation. I practice to have a stronger relationship with God here and now, which will lead to more fullfilling relationships with the world and myself.

The whole going to heaven thinking is childish. Work for heaven on earth.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

???

Surely you realize the folly of those statements.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Not necessarily a perfect scale, but where would people say they rank on it? I'm a 2 or 3 I guess.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm fine with avoiding hell on Earth on the North Side of town.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You definitely are number 2.

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No one can be a #7.

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How far do you have to go to move up to #17 in don's contest?

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You aren't a #17 but you sure as hell are the #1 Gay on this message board.

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That's the conunndrum of the 100% atheist. You can't prove a universal negative.

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Mr. Score, you want in on this ad?

That's the kind of shit you say if you want a first-class trip to hell, mister.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

spoken like a true weak theist!

One thing that's obvious from this thread is just how far removed Catholics have become from their Christian roots, i.e., The Bible.

Growing up Catholic, I never heard about the concept of being "saved" or anything about accepting Jesus Christ as my personal savior. It wasn't until later in life when I met "born again" Christians, or what my grandfather would call "Holy Rollers", that I gained understanding of these concepts.

Many Catholics here seem to believe that the road to salvation is "being a good person". I have no idea where they're coming up with that. This generally leads to a conversation that includes something like, "So, if I'm saved, I can rob and commit murders and still get to heaven?" Which completely misses the point that someone who truly is walking in the light would not do such things.

As DT pointed out, you don't know who is really saved and you don't need to know.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

In reality, it's about as verifiable as whatever path the guy who gets paid to preach to you is saying.

I just look at the history of the world, and all the different belief systems, and the varying ways of success in the afterlife, and think that there just has to be very simple and easy universal rules for judgement. While it's most certainly possible that Christianity is "right" it's without question been modified and corrupted over thousands of years. I keep getting back to how virtually every part of church has teachings that just so happen to coincide with ways to keep people constantly involved and therefore a constant stream of income. Some of the time they flat out set rules on what you need to be doing. I highly doubt that God coincidentally chose all of these rules that just so happen to be ideal ways to solicit donations.

If the bad guy in all of this is the "devil", which Mini Ditka had the keen observation that "evil" is part of it, then avoiding "evil" should be pretty cool in God's eye.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You mean its institutions have made modifications and have been corrupted. That has nothing to do with the fact that if you are a Christian, you believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins. It really doesn't get more simple.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He did. It's just a question of how I have to behave in order to be forgiven for them.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Having also been raised Catholic I don't see much difference other than timing. When one is baptized a Catholic that is no different than the "holy roller" being save or accepting Jesus etc. In the Catholic it usually happens as a baby and your godparents take the vows/or accepting part on your behalf. I have found other Christians this happens in teens to adulthood where they make a choice of some sort themselves. Of course Catholics then have the baptized reconfirm this generally in their teens themselves.

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Elections have consequences.

Actually pm, it's far different then what evangelicals posit as necessary for salvation.

Catholics do not believe that once baptized, one is automatically saved. We need to cooperate with God in the process. We have a choices available to us. A well formed conscience along with His grace can lead us to making correct choices.

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Ok I wasn't following the evangelical part of that.

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Elections have consequences.

Born again, evangelicals, holy rollers are folks that believe that same philosophy

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That person would get into ante-Heaven.

It's Heaven adjacent.

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It's like Canada. Not quite as good as the USA.

Or in terms you'll understand, it's like getting a handie instead of head.

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Exactly.

Everyone knows God loves the USA best.

'Muricah!

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That's filed under "not your concern". If it were, you'd be taking care of it at present.

In other words, that's God's business, not mine. I'm quite sure He handles such matters fair and equitably as a loving Father.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Or He'll make you wander the desert for 40 years cause Janet is on the rag and He's pissed.

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