I think it is pretty big news that it appears from that article that things are in a worse situation that Theo was led to believe when he came on board.

I do agree with you about the patience of the fans. 2015 is the absolute deadline for patience. If things are not turned around/turning around by then things are going to get bad.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Don't worry people from Iowa and Japan will continue to fill the seats..

_________________

What bothers me most about Ricketts is he just kind of sat back and looked around for two seasons. He should have blowed the whole thing up after his first year.

All this finacial turmoil,but Mark Cuban couldn't own them??

_________________
favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

He likes making a ton of money living in a great city with virtually no expectations of winning for years? Then, after stacking the deck heavily in his favor by hoarding draft picks he'll be considered a genius if he makes the playoffs in 2015.

It's not even a discussion now. Hiring Theo was a cost cutting measure. The Cubs hired Theo and slashed payroll a ton with little to no resistance from the fan base and got away with it. Theo has paid for himself in huge numbers especially if they continue to have a payroll well below what a major market team should have until 2015.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's really Machiavellian if it's true. I'm not sure Tom Ricketts is that sharp though.

But the bottom line is that the planned 100 loss season(s) were sold to the fanbase as necessary baseball moves that would help build for the future. Now you've got articles popping up- supported with quotes from Theo Himself- that perhaps that wasn't exactly the truth and the stripping down was more about finances rather than building for a future World Series.

RPB is right that patience will soon be running out. The same fans that cheered the 100 loss seasons as part of the World Series plan will turn pretty quickly if progress isn't being made. Especially if they read a few articles like these. Probably a good idea to stay at the "Friendly Confines", "The Shrine", "The Best Park in Baseball", "The Happiest Place on Earth" or whatever you want to call Wrigley Field and keep selling those tickets to tourists from Japan and Iowa who aren't too concerned about who is on the field.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I wish the Tribune had never sold the team.

_________________

You know when I got worried for the Cubs? When Todd Ricketts was on Undercover Boss and he was too goddamn dumb to park a car or mop a floor.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

That's ridiculous.

It's not even a discussion

Are you kidding?

Theo was not needed to cut payroll. Fans were ready for the payroll to be cut by anyone after the drunken sailor spending of Hendry.

Im sure Ricketts wanted to slash payroll but hiring Theo doesnt help that. He probably hired Theo for P.R. and because he proved he can draft well and build from the ground up in Boston.

Why would fans be ready to cut payroll? Was anyone legitimately upset that the Cubs spent too much trying to win? Now, maybe you question whether they made the right moves, and in hindsight, you can question them, but I honestly can't envision a scenario where I would be happy that my team cut payroll by that much.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. By hiring Theo, and then selling "trust in Theo's plan" they were able to slash payroll without any resistance and can probably get away with it until 2014 and maybe 2015.

Is there a single other team in baseball that could get away with a 33% reduction in payroll and people are actively happy they are doing it?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No, because there is no other team that hasn't won a World Series in a 100 years or failed to play in the World Series for ~60 years.

I don't understand why tearing down and rebuilding through drafting and developing is such a controversial tough concept to understand.

Im not upset they spent trying to win. Im just realistic that it didnt work and it almost never works in general. Even the big spending Yankee teams that won had a core of home grown players.

Regardless of who the GM was, it was time to blow it up and rebuild. If anything Theo raised expectations.

I don't see how anyone could argue with that.

While I don't think Ricketts was smart enough to rub his hands together like Mr. Burns and say, "Heh, heh, heh, if I hire Theo, I can slash payroll to small market proportions and the fans will love me for it!", ultimately that has been the result.

We were told that Theo had full control of baseball ops and all decisions he made were based upon winning a World Series. Now it appears that might not be exactly correct.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Wrong. He does have full control. He just has to work within a given budget.

This is what I'm talking about. Big market fan bases don't accept 3 or 4 years worth of losing with a disproportionate low payroll unless you bring in a guy like Theo who can sell that type of plan.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Look two posts up.

It was time to rebuild. The rebuild was coming Theo or not. I would argue Theo raised expectations. If it were Randy Bush, they would have still cut payroll.

I dont understand how this is hard to grasp for some. All during 07-08-09 I heard people saying the payroll was too high, they were overspending and all these contracts were going to hurt them.

Then when they start making moves to cut or expedite the process of getting out of these contracts, the same people say "Look! They're slashing payroll! They lied!!"

Pick a lane.


Yes, Ricketts has been less than honest. But to say Theo was a cost cutting move is flat out silly.

The issue is not about rebuilding. It's about pretending like you have to rebuild like you are the Royals or Marlins while being the most profitable team in baseball.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Are you suggesting his budget for payroll is $87 million? If so, you should join Curious in missing the Tribune Co.

And example, alluded to in the articles yesterday regarded the posting of the foreign pitchers, Yu Darvish and Ryu Hyun-Jin. Matsuzaka was a key guy on the Red Sox World Series winner. Theo stuck his neck out with him. Perhaps Theo envisioned Darvish or Hyun-Jim as the centerpiece of the 2016 World Series champion Cubs rotation but Joe Ricketts wouldn't sign off on what Theo wanted to post. That isn't "full control", is it? Now, we don't know exactly what is and what isn't true, but Theo's own words are telling, and, I assume that's why Hoffy posted this topic.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Exactly. Nobody is saying they didn't need to rebuild. But they certainly shouldn't have needed to create one of the worst teams in the game for a few seasons. But apparently they did. And not because it furthers the goal of the 2016 World Series, but rather because Big Joe demanded it.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I've accepted 19-20 years of losing. I've seen large payroll fail, medium payroll fail and now it's onto small payroll.

I really don't understand what they criticism is. This is the 1st time in my memory the Cubs have stated and are implementing a plan that has worked for many teams in winning a World Series.

I dont know why you insist on stating your questionable opinions as fact.


Many big market teams have rebuilt. See the Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, and Rangers now.


And you keep mislabeling fans understanding a rebuild (something that seems like its a totally foreign concept to you) as fans being happy that they are losing


There is only on Yankees. Every other team is subject to dips in payroll and rebuilding. Look at recent history.

No one is pretending. Its a smart way to go about it.


There is no glory in winning 80 games. (even though a ticket holder like JORR might feel different, the bottom line is winning 80 doesnt get you closer to a title than winning 70)

Bryan- Do you find the new information in anyway disturbing? Do you consider it a possibility that, based upon his own quotes, Theo isn't being given the free hand to run baseball ops he expected he would have?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Of course it does. 85 games might win the division. if you put a team capable of winning 80 out there, now it's July and maybe a Greinke is available to get you the other five.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

When they didnt close the deal in 08, the window closed and was going to be closed for a few years.

Yes, they could have signed marginal free agents and made a likely failed run at a second wild card winning 79 games.

Im not really interested in that.

The Cubs havent built a good farm system in ever

Good Farm systems are required for most World Series winners.

Cub fans want to be World Series winners.

So they are happy the long term problem of terrible development is being addressed.

But the article yesterday suggested they even went cheap on the Dominican Academy. Wasn't the whole thing that they were spending the same money as always it just wasn't in the big league payroll? That was clearly a lie.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I didnt take Theo's quote the way you and most others seemingly did.

I think he was referring to the attendance. He thought they would continue to sellout and that would aid in the rebuild (they didnt, which is further proof that Rick's Cub fans are happy they are losing is a complete strawman)

But, like I wrote earlier, I havent trusted Ricketts since the begginning. I dont like his history. I dont like how he has handled things so far.

I disagree.

There is a huge gap between an 80 win team and a World Series team. There is a reason it only happened once and that Cardinals team dug a huge hole.

Absolutely.

I assume they are lying about some things. Its disappointing that they are going cheap on internal stuff (if that's true)

I'm not mislabeling anything. There are constant posts talking about how losing now is actually helping them win later. Kirkwood basically just said that. If you asked Cub fans right now if they are happy with the direction of the franchise, it would overwhelmingly be that they are. I believe jimmypasta was the only one upset with how last year went, and he was mocked by most other Cubs fans for it.
It's hard to find one so severe, especially coinciding with that team becoming the most profitable team in baseball.

The fact that 2015 is even mentioned as a return to contention is evidence enough. That's a long rebuild even for a mid market team.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Calling it a lie is bold. Isn't it possible they had ticket sale money earmarked to fund it? Everyone believed the Cubs would continue to sell out and they have not. That means there is probably less money to spend. Simple economics. Calling them liars is just silly. They had to adjust based on the income that came in.


If you want to criticize them for being surprised at the drop in ticket sales, do that.