Here's what I really think is going on. Joe Ricketts is a hard businessman. He could give two shits about a baseball team. His son, who isn't a dummy but is a silver spoon kid, convinced the old man to buy the team and told him they couldn't get hurt. He's right in that they can't get hurt. But that might not have been good enough for Joe. I think the kid overpromised how great the investment was. In Joe's mind, he's got cash tied up that could be doing more for him elsewhere. Unlike his son, he has no desire to be the big deal sports franchise operator. So Joe is starting to look over the kid's shoulder.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

It'd be nice if the author would give examples. The year before the set in stone amateur spending limits were implemented the Cubs paid over-slot to numerous players. Jorge Soler kind of received a lot of money too.

Mislabeling inside the paragraph where you try to defend your mislabeling.

I just spelled it out for you. Ill try again.

A good farm system is a good thing and neccessary thing in winning a World Series.
Cub fans are happy the farm system is finally being addressed.




Ok, so you are doing a bit now right?

Again, I implore you to look at the recent history of the Dodgers, Phillies, and Mets.

Sounds about right.

And Joe taking over might be a good thing. If he decides a winning baseball team is profitable, they will be a winning baseball team.

If it's not true, it's a lie, right? They cut the payroll drastically and raised ticket prices while telling the fans that they were still spending the same money. "You just don't see it." That is false. Untrue. A lie. I'm not sure why anyone, least of all a Cubs fan, would defend that.

Frankly, I don't care what they spend one way or another. They're not my team. I'm just pointing out the facts and am a little surprised how sold Cubs fans in general have been.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I've been skeptical of the Ricketts family from day one. Even when Tom stood beside the lectern!!! I mean, wasn't there talk very early on that they were overextending their finances just to close the sale?

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Is this the first time in history a team has lied?

The White Sox lie every year in June with the Ticket Sales = Big time Trades thing.

Dont you expect a certain amount of lying?


For this Cub fan, Im happy that they are addressing the farm system. That has been needed for literally decades. If they were good at the same time, that would be even better, but apparently thats not possible right now.

So where is the mislabeling? Remember earlier when you personally said you are happy they aren't winning 80 games?

Let me put it another way. If the Cubs lose 90 games this year very few Cubs fans will be upset. The Cubs have accepted multiple years of losing, and if the 2015 year is truly the target, will accept it for at least one more year.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Because for the 1st time the Cubs are implementing a plan that has proven success of winning multiple World Series. Not a hard concept to grasp.

You can stop with the "hard concept to grasp" stuff. You are making my point. You are the standard "trust in Theo" groupie.

It's not the first time by the way. Do you not remember how the Cubs were very close to winning the World Series?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There it is right there /\

I said there is no glory in winning 80 games.

Now you say that I said Im happy they arent winning 80 games.

You are not this obtuse.

I can understand that teams that win 80 games and teams that win 67 games both end up on the outside of the playoffs looking in. That doesnt mean im happy about it or rooting for losing.




Rebuilding doesnt exist in your world.

In your world, big market teams are magical and they rebuild even while maintaining a high payroll and competitive team.

In reality, that doesnt happen though. The Phillies are the best example, but you can look at the Mets, Dodgers, and even the Angels prior to there WS win. All big market teams who cut payroll rebuilt then raised the payroll when system caught up and they were ready to compete.

We cant stop until you grasp it.

Until you are ready to admit/understand the reality that teams not called the Yankees have to rebuild and cut payroll sometimes, Kirkwood's point will stand.

And you calling him a groupie is ridiculous.

And read his post before you jump on it. The Cubs have never had a plan that had a proven track record of winning multiple world series.

How many wins will it take this year for the Cubs for you to be happy with the season?

Theo Epstein was hired for the 2012 season. Giving a team with the money of the Cubs until 2015 to be competitive seems too long for me. I'd be pissed if the Sox came out and said they expect to be competitive again in 2017 in December.

When did the Phillies slash payroll? The Mets are a terrible example because they were destroyed by a Ponzi scheme. The Angels slashed payroll $11 million in 2006 and then went up every year after that. The Dodgers are probably the closest example to the Cubs though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I shouldn't trust a 2-time World Series winning GM? I don't see what's wrong with giving him the benefit of the doubt. He's barely been here.


No...when?

Sorry to leap in but wasn't there a plan to copy the Twin's success when they hired McPhail?

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Elections have consequences.

Once again, this is my original point. "Trust in Theo" has let them do a massive slashing of payroll while becoming the most profitable franchise in baseball, and they can squeeze at least one more year out of it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It really helps theo when a ready-to-roid david ortiz and a 28-29 year old manny ramirez happen to just be laying there on the ground. right next to that bag with $200mil in it.

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And like RPB stated it's not "Trust in Theo" Had Andrew Friedman, Jeff Luhnow, Billy Beane, Rick Hahn or any other candidate been hired Cubs fans would have accepted the rebuild. Fans want a sustainable World Series winner. Clearing the overpaid old floatsam and rebuilding through the draft is the proven way to do it.

I don't believe that. After all, you are saying for the first time in Cubs history they have a proven plan to win it all, even when they were only a few outs away from making the World Series. You wouldn't have Cub fans touting "2-time World Series champion" or people calling Rick Hahn the best GM in baseball.

You don't think that the name of Theo Epstein isn't selling this rebuilding plan?

If in December, Rick Hahn told White Sox fans that they'll be competitive again in 2017, you think it would go over just as well as when Theo did it?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I dont think Ill be happy with the season. If they win 95, I will but I think thats a long shot.


[
First of all, you have to get this idea out of your head that spending money = winning WS. It does not.

Secondly, The White Sox didnt just come off a legendary speding spree that came up empty.

Finally, the farm system has needed to be redone for decades. You keep ignoring this point.



The Phillies had a low to middling payroll in the early 2000's while they developed guys like Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins, and Chase Utley. When those guys became stars they spent around them and won a world series and appeared in two.

Yeah, that is how 04 happened, but 07 was a core of guys Theo drafted.

It almost seems like Rick just looks to paint Cub fans in any sort of negative light he can.

If you are unhappy with this season what would you have wanted the Cubs to do differently?
There is a big difference between eventually paying more and cutting payroll significantly and taking it as profit.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Don't forget that I also hate Jay Cutler.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You keep noting the fact they were the most profitable franchise in baseball, but you conveniently leave out the debt side of that coin. So it is not like they have all this money laying around that the Ricketts are sitting on while at the same time telling Theo to not spend money.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

That's irrelevant though. I understand why the Cubs are slashing payroll. I'm saying that hiring Theo let them get away with it while a team like the Mets is hated by the fan base for doing the same. Both fanbases are still dealing with poor teams while the teams pay down debt because of decisions they've made.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not sign Soriano for 8 years.


Not really

Big Market team had middling payroll til they are ready to contend and then they raise the payroll.

The Mets dont have a 104 year streak

The Mets have had success devoloping their own players.

The Cubs are unique.

See, this is a non-answer. In reality, because Theo is here, and has a plan, most Cub fans will be happy with this season no matter what happens because of the plan. That's why I'm not mislabeling anything. This is yet another grace period year. Next year probably is too. 2015 was the goal in December 2011. Now, the Cubs can be the most profitable team in baseball. Good move by the Ricketts.
Payroll raises when you get good players. That's not really a plan. It's just what happens. However, if you are predicting a spending spree like the Dodgers to happen before 2015 then you are right. I'm not so sure.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No, its a very honest and good answer. It doesnt serve your point, so you dismiss it.




Flat out lie. You're getting desperate.

One can approve of the long term plan without being happy about the current losing.







Are you kidding?

You spend 90% of the thread saying they should have a higher payroll, then you actually type the bolded portion?

really?

You are all over the place here.

Like many Cub fans, I approve of the long term plan and I dont like the losing.

Pretty simple.