I don't hate him. I hope he gets it figured out and can be a major part of that pen. But I just think he should keep his mouth shut about taking a team to the WS.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Well you were wrong to not like him. He was the best reliever in baseball and the main reason they came back in 07 and won in 08

Why were you so concerned about the future while they were already good?

Plus he was making the minimum.

Agreed.

I guess im just used to people just saying "He's done" about former stars and blame the management for putting him out there.

I see a lot of the hate aimed at Marmol, who im pretty sure is working as hard as he did in 07/08

I see.

I blame the question.

What are you going to do to turn around the boos?

Im gonna fucking pay them off!

The correct answer would be to get someone out.

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I believe his plan to go to the World Series probably included getting some outs

Cubbie Nation has turned on another former hero.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I was on the record disliking their 07 and 08 teams, both of which were fatally flawed. That's why I was looking to the future. I didn't think they could win the world series with their makeup. Just like Marmol. Sure, he was signed for nothing but he was destined for failure when they should have theoretically put the final pieces in place in 09 or 10.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Im not going to argue the 07 and 08 cubs with you as I see you are staunch in your analysis of them.

I disagree with a lot of that though.

And Marmol was a dominant relief pitcher in those years. There is no denying that.

no, there is not.

You're really freaking me out agreeing with me so much, by the way. Apropos of nothing...

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

AND I now concur that Shannon Brown and Derrick Rose are equally valuable

I'm out.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

OH HELL NO! A player stating a desire to get to a World Series and make the fans happy! This type of attitude cannot be allowed to infiltrate a clubhouse and contaminate the whole organization! It would be a terrible blow to the development of this team if OTHER players began talking about winning and achieving success! When will these guys learn that the key to success is a steady flow of negativity and the lack of desire to achieve great things! Particularly veteran players! They have a responsibility to make sure that the young players know they are terrible and carry that out onto the field day in and day out and say nothing indicating belief that they can be competitive and perform well! These young players must be led down the path of sorrow and misery so that they never begin to believe that good things are possible through positive thinking!

AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

Time to fucking freak out man - we have a positive thinker here and that should NOT be tolerated!


FFFFUUUUCCCCKKKKK!!!!!


PANIC! PANIC!! PANIC!!!

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IT IS OFFICIALLY TIME TO PANIC!
DO NOT REMAIN CALM!
DO NOT MOVE IN AN ORDERLY FASHION!

And the awful Cubs seasons are starting to effect my last favorite mult on the board. This truly is the darkest timeline.

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BRick-vibe

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Even when he was at his best he had a Farnsworthian fastball very fast but totally straight. Now that he has lost a few MPH off of it its just toast. The saddest thing was in the Braves game the other night him and Wellington came up with the plan to just have him throw 6 4 seamers in a row. Gee I wonder how he was able to time that one. Since obviously he can't locate his slider at all he is just throwing batting practice when he manages to get one over the plate.

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W

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

At his greatest he was the best relief pitcher in baseball for two years.


Im not sure why people were so concerned for the future while he was completely dominating in the present. Unless like CoF you had no hope for the 07 and 08 teams

You know less than you think you do.

Marmol was the MVP of both of those teams

Baseball reference has him 4th and 5th in reliever WAR in those years.

Take a look at his Runners stranded %, his strikeout rate, WHIP, and his number of innings.

He got an MVP vote in 07 as middle reliever.

Most valuable releiver in baseball in those two years


2007 ERA+ = Best in Baseball

Marmol was about as tough a pitcher to hit as there was at one time. But that time has past. the slider doesn't have the same bite and he still doesn't locate very well. I doubt they are gonna find a team wanting to trade even a decent prospect for him, so I fear he will remain on this team for the full season.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Marmol is a 2 pitch thrower. He isn't a "pitcher".

Nasty slider and a plus fastball back then and he could locate the slider and he had enough gas on the fastball to make it effective even though it was flat. A pitcher would work on his craft and make adjustments. He looks like he is still just in fuck it and chuck it mode. That doesn't work for very long.

They should have milked him for all they could when he could locate and when he still had the fastball coming in hot. The contract extension was fucking stupid. You had to know this was going to happen.

Look how many other closers cease to exist today. Gagne was lights out and then.....gone, Brian Wilson is still without a job I think. Valverde is in the minors after being without a team all off season.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

As long as Mariano Rivera was playing, Marmol was never the best reliever in baseball.

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Maybe I should say Most Valuable. But Rivera was not always the best. Gagne was certainly better in 03.

He never really located well.... the thing about Carlos Marmol, good or bad, is that he doesn't know where the fuck the ball is going. When he's on point and confident he's chuckling to B&B that "heh heh.... you have no chance" but when he's got no confidence he's up there thinking he has no chance, which he often doesn't nowadays. Now that he's likely had every pitching guru in the organ-I-zation out there working with him tinkering with his mechanics/mindset/execution/whatever he's some sort of a mess that prolly won't ever be right again til he leaves Chicago.

Honestly, I can see the dude busting off another ~2.50/0.86 ~110K in ~70-80IP season elsewhere.... all he has to do is get his obama-earred swag back and he'll be alright. You figure if he doesn't know where the ball is going then the hitter doesn't know where the ball is going and therefore he just has to have the stones to try and get more of the plate with his breaking pitches, whereas now when he's trying to be cutesy and hit spots with pitchers' pitches? Forget about it.... when he's missing by 5ft and then having to get a fastball over and he's so rattled that he has to grab too much plate with his fastball, welp, ~5.00 ERA ensues.

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That is 2008

In 2007 Carlos Marmol had the best ERA+ of anyone who pitched at least 25 Innings.

He was the best in baseball that year.

Marmol certainly was very good for a stretch, not sure he was ever close to the "best in baseball" during any full season.

http://www.upperdeckreport.com/page/sho ... -relievers

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No, ERA is.

ERA+ is fine for relievers.

Frank, thats just a list of Saves leaders. Joe Borowski is 2nd.

Marmol was not a closer yet

I could see Marmol being the most valuable to his team during 07-08.

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