It's decent, but not great. They try to make him out to be such a great base-stealer, but in fact his stolen base totals were nowhere near the really great base-stealers, guys like Ricky Henderson or even Tim Raines. They seemed to pay FAR too much attention to trying to make Robinson and his wife look like they just stepped off a photo shoot for GQ, rather than delving deeper into the Negro League experiences he had prior to getting the call from the Brooklyn Dodgers. They could have done with some footage of some of the other stars of the Negro leagues talking about their frustrations concerning not being able to play in the big leagues to that point. Show how they may have reacted when Robinson got his opportunity. Were they thrilled? Perhaps a bit jealous? There were better players that were passed on that probably resented not getting the same call. All in all, a good movie, but nothing special. Harrison Ford stands out though.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Word has it that it took Harrison Ford 23 takes to do the scene where he meets Robinson for the first time because he kept calling him Lando.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

That may be....or it could be bullshit. Doesn't matter much where the final product on screen is concerned. Ford is outstanding as Branch Rickey. If you were ever on a movie/TV set, you would realize that it's not unusual for a scene to require many takes. I don't believe for a secod that he called him Lando 22 times before getting it right though. Maybe it was a 14-15 hour day on the set and that scene was filmed towards the end of the day. Often thats when actors tend to screw up more often, as there are diminishing returns when the actor is really physically/mentally exhausted. Again, the finished product from Harrison Ford is very good.

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Branch Ricky? What's his kid's name, Twig?

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I saw it this weekend with my kids. It's PG-13, and we took my 10 year old with. Really, nothing objectionable except multiple repeated cringe-inducing usage of the N-word among other slurs. I think if the studio had to decide about making a PG-13 with that racial slur versus a PG movie without, they made the right choice by far. It really adds impact in several scenes, and makes you realize what assholes people could be (and unfortunately still are.) There's a specific scene in there with a kid attending the game with his dad... the kid is maybe 8 years old, and the dad (along with others in the crowd) start yelling out at him... the kid wants to be like his dad and starts yelling the same things. It's one of those things that I think everyone understands happened, but it really helps crystallize it to see it played out in that way.

It's a Warner Brothers film, and it's hard to sum up that career in 2 hours, but I think they did OK. Steve, it sounds like you were looking for a different movie, one about the Negro leagues during the early MLB Jackie Robinson years. That's not going to be a Warner Brothers movie -- that will be a documentary by someone and maybe you catch it on PBS at some point or it gets a twice a day airing in a 36-plex movie theater. If you are making a movie about Jackie Robinson, people are interested about him joining the majors. They also skipped over a lot of his later career, and I'm sure skipped over a bunch of stuff that happened when he was called up. I thought it told the story fairly well, and kept moving at a reasonable pace. It looked fairly accurate timewise as far as the old fields were concerned, and the old mitts and such (though I don't go back that far -- you'll have to ask JORR for those details.) Contained your standard inspirational sports movie cliche jokes and nonsense to lighten things up, but it was alright on the whole.

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"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

Stolen Bases s c a p y
1947 NL 29 (1st)
1948 NL 22 (4th)
1949 NL 37 (1st)
1950 NL 12 (7th)
1951 NL 25 (3rd)
1952 NL 24 (3rd)
1953 NL 17 (4th)
1955 NL 12 (6th)
1956 NL 12 (6th)


Looks like he was consistently one of or the best in the league.




Who exactly are you thinking of?

oh the supposition! maybe! could be! probably!

Lando, really?

Clearly we can add movie critic and acting coach to the Brand's skill sack. It is a bit ironic that the first foray is "42."

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@audioidkid

Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Willie Mays, Ernie Banks and Roy Campanella just to name a few. They make the point ( a valid one) that they had to pick a guy able to withstand the public's reaction to the introduction of a black player into the major leagues. But I would have liked to have seen how the other more talented Baseball players would have reacted. I imagine they would have been thrilled to see SOMEONE get the opportunity, yet perplexed why it was a less talented player.

While you can show that jackie had 2 seasons where he led the league in stolen bases, I think it only serves to support my positon that he was no Ricky Henderson, or even Tim Raines. Both led their leagues more and their stolen base totals were far more impressive. Listing a total of just 12 stolen bases in 1950, 1955 and 1956, only shows that he was not the prolific base stealer the movie tries to make him out to be. The fact that there were far fewer bases stolen back then could be argued, but then one would have to look over Ty Cobb's records.....far more impressive .

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I think you vastly underrate how good Robinson was.

He was the OG five tool player.

I agree. I thought that was an understated, but powerful scene. Not the same as the one with the Phillies Manager (Chapman I think) who heckles Robinson to the point of nearly getting the best of him, but a powerful scene. I think a scene that I had not expected and was really funny, was where one of the players tries to get Robinson to shower with the rest of the team, rather than wait till everyone else was finished in the shower.

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No-he didn't have enough power to be considered a true 5 tool player. Plus, he really didn't have a great arm. Thats why they switched him from SS (where he played in the Negro Leagues) to 2nd base and 1st base, where his arm strength was not a problem. Not saying he wasn't a HOF player, or shouldn't be. He deserved that honor and was an outstanding player. But not at the same level as Aaron, Frank Robinson, Banks, Mays or Campanella. Compare his stats to those players and get back to me....

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I dont need to check the stats, I know them.

You underrate him. He was 28 when he started. He missed out on like 6 prime years. He had enough power to drive in 124 runs in a season. He was in the top 12 of MVP voting in each of his first 7 years.

Going by WAR, he is equal to Aaron and well ahead of Robinson, Banks, and Campanella.

Willie Mays is the only one you listed that is clearly better. But he's better than everyone not named Babe Ruth.

I once thought that Robinson was overrated but have changed my opinion.
The man was an electrifying performer who put fans in the stands and would have also done so if he had been white.
I saw the movie and thought it was excellent.
Come Oscar time, I don't know how they'll be able to decide which actor, Boseman or Ford is deserving of a nomination for Best Actor or Best Supporting Actor.

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Host of the weekly "We Fish ASA" podcast
Weekly columnist for the Northwest Herald
Bi-monthly columnist for Illinois Outdoor News magazine
Former host of The Outdoors Experience on WIND and The Great Outdoors on CLTV
http://www.wefishasa.com

You have no idea what you are talking about. To compare Jackie Robinson, who never hit even 20 Home Runs in a single season and had just 137 in his entire career to guys like Mays, Aaron, Banks or Frank Robinson.....is crazy. Jackie Robinson had just ONE season with over 100 RBI, those guys topped 100 routinely. Jackie Robinson was probably not even amongst the top 10 players in the Negro Leagues when he was signed by the Dodgers. The fact that you compare a guy that had a weak arm, never had 20 HR in a season and just 1 season over 100 RBI to those guys, shows you are ignorant where Baseball history is concerned.

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Yet the numbers you told me to check completely back me up.

Jackie Robinson averaged around 6.1 WAR per year his whole career.

Banks, F. Robinson, and Campanella were all less than that.

Aaron was around the same.

Dont be mad at me Steve. Your issues are with the numbers.

And dont tell me I dont know history when you are spreading such ignorance as "Jackie Robinson was overrated as a base stealer" or "Jackie Robinson wasnt one of the ten best Negro league players"

Oh and btw, all the guys you mentioned began their careers at age 20-23

The Brand's ignorance is best served cold.

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@audioidkid

Fuck your WAR statistics. Jackie Robinson NEVER had 20 HR's in a season, (only 137 in his career)only had 197 Stolen bases in his career and only 734 RBI. Hank Aaron had 240 stolen bases, 2297 RBI and 755 HR's. Ernie Banks had 512 HR's and 1636 RBI. Willie Mays had 338 stolen bases, 660 HR's and 1903 RBI and Frank Robinson had 204 stolen bases, 586 HR's and 1812 RBI. All these players dwarf the stats of your WAR hero. As a 1st baseman and 2nd baseman, he didn't play a position that really was vital either. If you want to base your argument on WAR statistics alone, it's probably because thats all you have to back you up, while every other measurable says you don't know what you are talking about.

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You are attempting to use career totals to compare guys who played 20+ years to a guy who played 10


Also, the reason people use WAR is to compare players in different times. Apparently you believe the 40's and 60's were the same kind of baseball. More ignorance.

Anyway, I agree that those guys racked up more numbers in twice the time. Good analysis.

Why does anyone bother to argue sports thoughts with this person?

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This is my signature...

In this case I don't think he is wrong but I also like being a contrarian.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Not wrong about what? WAR being useless? Comparing players of a different era? Comparing the stats of a player that started in the league at 28 to those that started much younger?

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This is my signature...

For fun?

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We all know why you don't like Jackie Robinson or this movie, Steve...

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The age thing works for someone like Satchel Paige but not for Jackie Robinson. A 22 year old Jackie Robinson still would not have been better than any of those players that Steve listed. Steve isn't the first person to rightfully say that there were better players in the Negro league but Jackie Robinson's makeup was one that would help him overcome the racism and have success. Let's not act as if WAR is a fool proof stat either. Especially when it tells you a guy like Zobrist is better than damn near every superstar player. I know it's sexy to stomp Steve every time he posts something and he enjoys it too but in no world is Jackie Robinson better than Willie Mays or Frank Robinson or Hank Aaron or Ernie Banks.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

A lot of bad thoughts here, mostly from The Brand.

Henderson and Raines may have been more prolific than Wills, Aparicio, and Jackie, but I wouldn't say they were "better". In their time guys didn't run for the sake of running. It was only done with specific purpose.

As far as players that were considered superior to Robinson at the time, I think Monte Ervin was widely viewed as the best player in the Negro Leagues circa 1947. It's quite likely that he and Paige had some resentment when Jackie was chosen by Rickey. But Rickey wanted the college man, the guy he thought could turn the other cheek. I can't imagine Satchel Paige standing there smiling while Dixie Walker called him "n1gger" or "boy". And I think history has shown that Rickey picked the right guy.

As far as his career is concerned, Robinson was undeniably great. But his career was short. Had a white guy put up those same numbers, he'd be iffy for the Hall of Fame. But we all know Jackie Robinson is important beyond his numbers. He isn't in the Hall of Fame for his .311 career average. He's the second most important guy ever to play the game of baseball behind Babe Ruth, without whom there probably wouldn't have been a game to integrate after the Black Sox scandal.

Finally, Robinson wasn't as great as Aaron or Mays? No shit. Who the fuck was? Williams and Musial?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I feel that this part was glossed over by the group. You just got BIG TIMED!

Steve probably has the most on camera experience on the board other than Shakes.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

The first take, he said he didn't kill his wife.
The second take, he said, "Get off my plane!"

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You'll notice, I am not one to stomp everything Steve says.

Jackie Robinson was as good as Frank, and Ernie Banks in this world that you and I live in. I dont know why you would say it like that, since its obviously subjective to a degree. I specifically said Mays was better and Aaron as good or better, so I dont know why you're bringing them up.

I mean, obviously, if you give a lot of credit for longevity, but I dont think you should hold it against Robinson that he missed those 6 years.

The part that was glossed over is "Lando" and that someone then thought it well enough it write about the fundamentals of acting. Yes, I've been on multiple movie and commercial sets.

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@audioidkid

Best 5 seasons for each player:

Jackie Robinson
1949 .342 16 HR 124 RBI 37 SB By far his best season.
1950 .328 14HR 81 RBI 12 SB
1951 .338 19 HR 88 RBI 25 SB
1952 .308 19 HR 75 RBI 24 SB
1953 .329 12 HR 95 RBI 17 SB

Frank Robinson (The better one)

1959 .311 36 HR 125 RBI 18 SB
1961 .323 37 HR 124 RBI 22 SB
1962 .342 39 HR 136 RBI 18 SB
1965 .296 33 HR 113 RBI 13 SB
1966 .316 49 HR 122 RBI 8 SB

Hank Aaron

1959 .355 39 HR 123 RBI 8 SB
1961 .327 34 HR 120 RBI 21 SB
1962 .323 45 HR 128 RBI 15 SB
1963 .319 44 HR 130 RBI 31 SB
1966 .279 47 HR 127 RBI 21 SB

Ernie Banks
1958 .313 47 HR 129 RBI 4 SB
1959 .304 45 HR 143 RBI 2 SB
1960 .271 41 HR 117 RBI 1 SB
1962 .269 37 HR 104 RBI 5 SB
1969 .309 23 HR 106 RBI 1 SB

Willie Mays- Too many seasons with over a .320 average, 30-50 HR's and 100-130 RBI to list.

My original statement was just that there were better players in the Negro League at the time Jackie Robinson was selected to play for the Dodgers. RPB was the one that challenged that statement, so I supported it with names and statistics that bolstered my statement. According to stats accumulated, Jackie Robinson's career stats compare to Edgar Martinez, Carlos Guillen, Jeff Cirillo and Joe Randa. Had he not been the first black player in the major leagues, chances are good he never would have been selected for the Hall of Fame.

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Go Cubs!!!!