Had he not been the first black player in the major leagues, chances are good he never would have been selected for the Hall of Fame.

I am not a legal expert, how many times do I have to say it?

You'll notice, I am not one to stomp everything Steve says.

Jackie Robinson was as good as Frank, and Ernie Banks in this world that you and I live in. I dont know why you would say it like that, since its obviously subjective to a degree. I specifically said Mays was better and Aaron as good or better, so I dont know why you're bringing them up.

I mean, obviously, if you give a lot of credit for longevity, but I dont think you should hold it against Robinson that he missed those 6 years.

Best 5 seasons for each player:

Jackie Robinson
1949 .342 16 HR 124 RBI 37 SB By far his best season.
1950 .328 14HR 81 RBI 12 SB
1951 .338 19 HR 88 RBI 25 SB
1952 .308 19 HR 75 RBI 24 SB
1953 .329 12 HR 95 RBI 17 SB

Frank Robinson (The better one)

1959 .311 36 HR 125 RBI 18 SB
1961 .323 37 HR 124 RBI 22 SB
1962 .342 39 HR 136 RBI 18 SB
1965 .296 33 HR 113 RBI 13 SB
1966 .316 49 HR 122 RBI 8 SB

Hank Aaron

1959 .355 39 HR 123 RBI 8 SB
1961 .327 34 HR 120 RBI 21 SB
1962 .323 45 HR 128 RBI 15 SB
1963 .319 44 HR 130 RBI 31 SB
1966 .279 47 HR 127 RBI 21 SB

Ernie Banks
1958 .313 47 HR 129 RBI 4 SB
1959 .304 45 HR 143 RBI 2 SB
1960 .271 41 HR 117 RBI 1 SB
1962 .269 37 HR 104 RBI 5 SB
1969 .309 23 HR 106 RBI 1 SB

Willie Mays- Too many seasons with over a .320 average, 30-50 HR's and 100-130 RBI to list.

My original statement was just that there were better players in the Negro League at the time Jackie Robinson was selected to play for the Dodgers. RPB was the one that challenged that statement, so I supported it with names and statistics that bolstered my statement. According to stats accumulated, Jackie Robinson's career stats compare to Edgar Martinez, Carlos Guillen, Jeff Cirillo and Joe Randa. Had he not been the first black player in the major leagues, chances are good he never would have been selected for the Hall of Fame.

Also if you fuck someone like they are a millionaire they might go try to be one.

My original statement was just that there were better players in the Negro League at the time Jackie Robinson was selected to play for the Dodgers.

I feel that this part was glossed over by the group. You just got BIG TIMED!

Steve probably has the most on camera experience on the board other than Shakes.

Jackie wan't as good as Frank Robinson or Ernie. Frank Robinson is nearly on the level with Aaron, Mays, and Mantle. Ernie was the best slugging shortstop ever outside the steroid era.

So, now we are taking their 5 best years and comparing them?

You underrate Jackie Robinson because you dont understand a lot of the history of baseball and how things played differently in different eras (As evidenced by your comparing Robinson's steals to guys who played 4 decades later)


Jackie Robinson was in the MVP discussion for 80% of his career. Seems Hall of Fame-ish to me.

Im going by numbers I was told to look up.

I disagree. I think a lot of what's being lost here is the eras they played in and the length. I think if Jackie played for 20 years into the late 60's and early 70's his numbers would look similar.

Were not talking just slugging

I get to go in the time machine this week on the set of Chicago Fire, where I play a Police Officer. Week before last, I had 4 days working on an ABC pilot called Doubt, in which I will have a recurring role if the series gets picked up. All part of "operation expand the Brand"!

The part that was glossed over is "Lando" and that someone then thought it well enough it write about the fundamentals of acting. Yes, I've been on multiple movie and commercial sets.

But the guy only had a high of 37 stolen bases and never more than 25 otherwise. He only had a single season with 100 RBI and NEVER hit even 20 HR's. Overrated....

That sounds like fun. Do you ever get speaking roles or are they all walk on/extra stuff?

Mays, and Mantle. Ernie was the best slugging shortstop ever outside the steroid era.

Steve look at the stolen base numbers from back then.

Think of Roberto Alomar. (maybe the GOAT) Thats what Robinson was like.

Im going by numbers I was told to look up.

I disagree. I think a lot of what's being lost here is the eras they played in and the length. I think if Jackie played for 20 years into the late 60's and early 70's his numbers would look similar.

Were not talking just slugging

But slugging is important. Clemente couldn't understand why he wasn't considered on the same level as Aaron and Mays. He wasn't as good. He didn't slug as much.

Correct. Clemente was outstanding, but never had the monster power numbers they had. Aaron and Mays ran very well too in their early years. Guys like that were true 5 tool players. Calling a guy who never topped 19 homers a 5 tool player is silly.

Think of Roberto Alomar. (maybe the GOAT) Thats what Robinson was like.

It's more fun to be a victim

There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.

Especially when it tells you a guy like Zobrist is better than damn near every superstar player. .

Correct. Najeh Davenport got in big trouble for that.

if you want to look at stolen base numbers from back then, look at TY Cobb's. Then you will see a great base-runner of that era.

Correct. Najeh Davenport got in big trouble for that.

It's more fun to be a victim

There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.

He apparently had a thing for having a Cleveland Steamer done to him by call girls.

I dont think this is an argument against WAR though.

Why do we have these stats if every time they bare out something we didnt expect we just dismiss them?

Zobrist was a monster that year and played plus defense all over the field. I think its possible he was more valuable to his team but not in ways we are used to seeing.

That's why some people dismiss the numbers though. I love stats but IMO the sabermetrics can fail the eye test. They can be useful but when WAR tells me Zobrist is more valuable than Pujols then I know the formula could use some tweaking. Similar to when Holliger's PER had good to mediocre players ranked higher than Kobe and other superstars.

My dad told me about the time Ty Cobb came spikes up into Jackie at first. That Cobb was a fuckin' racist.