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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
Q.Bovifs wrote:
Lies. All lies to cushion and expand the implementation of internet restrictions and


:scratch:

So.......not the "NRA/gun" thing anymore? It seems like you are just going with the "This is part of a larger conspiracy so the govrnment can ________" theory.

I get the mistrust of the gov thing. But when you keep changing your narrative, it gives creedence to those who just dismiss allegations of government secrets as the ramblings of crazy people.

I know they (govornment) are behind some shit that they don't want us to know about, but you keep changing the "why" portion of this alleged conspiracy...



This won't help matters any...http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-ricin ... 27275.html

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:23 pm 
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BOMB SUSPECT INFLUENCED BY MYSTERIOUS RADICAL
By ADAM GOLDMAN, ERIC TUCKER and MATT APUZZO
— Apr. 23 5:22 PM EDT


WASHINGTON (AP) — In the years before the Boston Marathon bombings, Tamerlan Tsarnaev fell under the influence of a new friend, a Muslim convert who steered the religiously apathetic young man toward a strict strain of Islam, family members said.

Under the tutelage of a friend known to the Tsarnaev family only as Misha, Tamerlan gave up boxing and stopped studying music, his family said. He began opposing the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He turned to websites and literature claiming that the CIA was behind the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and Jews controlled the world.

"Somehow, he just took his brain," said Tamerlan's uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, who recalled conversations with Tamerlan's worried father about Misha's influence. Efforts over several days by The Associated Press to identify and interview Misha have been unsuccessful.

Tamerlan's relationship with Misha could be a clue in understanding the motives behind his religious transformation and, ultimately, the attack itself. Two U.S. officials say he had no tie to terrorist groups.

Throughout his religious makeover, Tamerlan maintained a strong influence over his siblings, including Dzhokhar, who investigators say carried out the deadly attack by his older brother's side, killing three and injuring 264 people.

"They all loved Tamerlan. He was the eldest one and he, in many ways, was the role model for his sisters and his brother," said Elmirza Khozhugov, 26, the ex-husband of Tamerlan's sister, Ailina. "You could always hear his younger brother and sisters say, 'Tamerlan said this,' and 'Tamerlan said that.' Dzhokhar loved him. He would do whatever Tamerlan would say.

"Even my ex-wife loved him so much and respected him so much," Khozhugov said. "I'd have arguments with her and if Tamerlan took my side, she would agree: 'OK, if Tamerlan said it.'"

Khozhugov said he was close to Tamerlan when he was married and they kept in touch for a while but drifted apart in the past two years or so. He spoke to the AP from his home in Almaty, Kazakhstan. A family member in the United States provided the contact information.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev was killed in a police shootout Friday. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was charged Monday with using a weapon of mass destruction to kill, and he could face the death penalty if convicted.

"Of course I was shocked and surprised that he was Suspect No. 1," Khozhugov said, recalling the days after the bombing when the FBI identified Tamerlan as the primary suspect. "But after a few hours of thinking about it, I thought it could be possible that he did it."

Based on preliminary written interviews with Dzhokar in his hospital bed, U.S. officials believe the brothers were motivated by their religious views. It has not been clear, however, what those views were.

As authorities try to piece together that information, they are touching on a question asked after so many terrorist plots: What turns someone into a terrorist?

The brothers emigrated in 2002 or 2003 from Dagestan, a Russian republic that has become an epicenter of the Islamic insurgency that spilled over from the region of Chechnya.

They were raised in a home that followed Sunni Islam, the religion's largest sect. They were not regulars at the mosque and rarely discussed religion, Khozhugov said.

Then, in 2008 or 2009, Tamerlan met Misha, a slightly older, heavyset bald man with a long reddish beard. Khozhugov didn't know where they'd met but believed they attended a Boston-area mosque together. Misha was an Armenian native and a convert to Islam and quickly began influencing his new friend, family members said.

Once, Khozhugov said, Misha came to the family home outside Boston and sat in the kitchen, chatting with Tamerlan for hours.

"Misha was telling him what is Islam, what is good in Islam, what is bad in Islam," said Khozhugov, who said he was present for the conversation. "This is the best religion and that's it. Mohammed said this and Mohammed said that."

The conversation continued until Tamerlan's father, Anzor, came home from work.

"It was late, like midnight," Khozhugov said. "His father comes in and says, 'Why is Misha here so late and still in our house?' He asked it politely. Tamerlan was so much into the conversation he didn't listen."

Khozhugov said Tamerlan's mother, Zubeidat, told him not to worry.

"'Don't interrupt them,'" Khozhugov recalled the mother saying. "'They're talking about religion and good things. Misha is teaching him to be good and nice.'"

As time went on, Tamerlan and his father argued about the young man's new beliefs.

"When Misha would start talking, Tamerlan would stop talking and listen. It upset his father because Tamerlan wouldn't listen to him as much," Khozhugov said. "He would listen to this guy from the mosque who was preaching to him."

Anzor became so concerned that he called his brother, worried about Misha's effects.

"I heard about nobody else but this convert," Tsarni said. "The seed for changing his views was planted right there in Cambridge."

It was not immediately clear whether the FBI has spoken to Misha or was attempting to.

Tsarnaev became an ardent reader of jihadist websites and extremist propaganda, two U.S. officials said. He read Inspire magazine, an English-language online publication produced by al-Qaida's Yemen affiliate.

Tamerlan loved music and, a few years ago, he sent Khozhugov a song he'd composed in English and Russian. He said he was about to start music school.

Six weeks later, the two men spoke on the phone. Khozhugov asked how school was going.

"I quit," Tamerlan said.

"Why did you quit?" Khozhugov asked. "You just started."

"Music is not really supported in Islam," he replied.

"Who told you that?"

"Misha said it's not really good to create music. It's not really good to listen to music," Tamerlan said, according to Khozhugov.

Tamerlan took an interest in Infowars, a conspiracy theory website. Khozhugov said Tamerlan was interested in finding a copy of the book "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," the classic anti-Semitic hoax, first published in Russia in 1903, that claims a Jewish plot to take over the world.

"He never said he hated America or he hated the Jews," Khozhugov said. "But he was fairly aggressive toward the policies of the U.S. toward countries with Muslim populations. He disliked the wars."

One of the brothers' neighbors, Albrecht Ammon, recently recalled an encounter in which Tamerlan argued about U.S. foreign policy, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and religion.

Ammon said Tamerlan described the Bible as a "cheap copy" of the Quran, used to justify wars with other countries.

"He had nothing against the American people," Ammon said. "He had something against the American government."

Khozhugov said Tamerlan did not know much about Islam beyond what he found online or what he heard from Misha.

"Misha was important," he said. "Tamerlan was searching for something. He was searching for something out there."

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:38 pm 
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A caller on Roe and Roeper today brought up a good point.
Where where these guys getting money from?They had decent places to live. Cars and stuff with no jobs? He said as an investigator you need to follow the money. The other thing is that bomb making is an art. You need to practice and constantly do it like a surgeon or your skills go bad. It seems kinda strange that these guys built 3 large devices that all went off and about a 50-60% success rate with the smaller ones. They are saying that is almost unheard of.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:58 pm 
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I questioned their money too? The older brother didn't have a job after he quit boxing but everybody said he dressed well. It was said the younger one had $900 shoes. He also had a Benz. How was the younger one paying for college? If you believe that debka.com story where they say they were double agents, it says the older brother got the CIA to pay for his brother's college. Or at least give him a partial scholarship.

Then again, they spent it as they got it. Why? Cuz they had to take their car jacked hostage to 3 ATMs to get $800 in cash. If you have money you obviously don't need to do that. So they didn't save any of that CIA money.

Also, the bombs they made were cheap. They say a pressure cooker bomb would cost around $100 to make. Pipe bombs are cheap to make as well. It was also reported they shot the cop cuz they wanted his gun. Big brother had one, little brother didn't.

It was also suggested that they probably maxed out credit cards with no intention of paying the bill. That will probably be revealed in the coming weeks.

So that might explain it. Money from the CIA, maxing out credit cards and the bombs were relatively cheap.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:12 pm 
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They also didn't get out of Boston after the bombings. If they had money, they would have.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Beardown wrote:
I questioned their money too?


Yes?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:18 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:

From my readings and such the Taliban was fostered in the administered tribal regions during the war as that is where the Afghan refugees were fleeing to safety. Many were radicalized, organized and such, they wouldn't really become "The Taliban" until the early 90's when they began to fight the Northern Alliance. I'm saying the CIA didn't directly fund "The Taliban" during the 80's because they really didn't exist as an organized entity but that they did fund some of those that would become not only "The Taliban" but also the Northern Alliance. It wasn't just the CIA funding and arming the Mujaheddin during that period, many nations were in on it....Egypt, Israel, Britain, France, China etc. etc. etc.

Anyways, after the Soviet withdrawal every one else evacuated and left behind that pesky power vacuum that would be filled by you know who and their ISI handlers. Pakistan really wanted some strategic depth, it seems.


Yes, you're right. The fighters were an amorphous bunch in the '80s that formed into relatively cohesive groups later on. This is also what the articles I referenced said as well. I don't think we're disagreeing here, you were just more precise than I was about who exactly was funded in the '80s.

I'm not sure if the ISI and the Taliban were always bedfellows though; the US did manage to convince the Pakistanis to launch major internecine attacks against the Taliban and its offshoots in northern Pakistan at least twice, one of which I think occurred in 2009. At best, it seems as if it's an on again off again relationship, but you may know more and I'd be curious to see what you have to say.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:19 pm 
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There was another report that the older brother's wife was the sole source of income for the last year or two. He probably didn't tell her about the CIA money. He was busy focusing on being a terrorist so she told him she'd handle the bills I guess.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:

5. I dearly appreciate your candor and willing discourse (second time I used that word today), so I don't wish to push you to address anything that would make you uncomfortable, but how about my question regarding the likely origins of the apparently-recent modern day heinous tactics (i.e. strap-n-go, etc.) of these groups? Is it truly recent? If so, when and how (which events) do you set the onset (i.e. anything more specific than just "Post WWI"?), and can you speculate as to how and why it has it evolved to the current levels of inhumanity and brutality?.


Hmm...this is an interesting question, and way above my head, but I'll try and give you my own take.

IMO the best sources on some of the rationales behind the type of violence we're seeing are found in ethnography-ish works on groups located in these volatile regions. So if you read something like Messages to the World, which is collection of some of the most noteworthy translated statements of Osama bin Laden (http://www.amazon.com/Messages-World-St ... 1844670457), you'll find what are his and his group's own reasons for launching particular attacks. I've also had a chance to read similar works for class and what not, and the picture that emerges is that they consider their efforts as "retaliatory" attacks for what they see as the deliberate political, economic, and cultural dissolution (through colonial occupation, the installation of puppet regimes, regime change, atrocities in Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon, and the Palestine problem in general, the support of corrupt regimes in Egypt, Iran (pre-revolution), etc., aspects of globalization, and global market machinations, etc.) of the Muslim world at the hands of Western powers. So, for them, the purpose of terror is to compel the eventual withdrawal of military forces/influence from the region through inhumane events like suicide bombs and mass killings of innocents, which they crudely justify through "an eye for an eye" type of logic.

So, yes, I'd say that what we're seeing here is definitely recent, and is based on an increasing sense of powerlessness over their own particular socioeconomic and political affairs, which they see as having been unjustly taken away from them. Again, that's just from reading some of the literature produced in that part of the world.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Here's a picture display of a conspirasy theory.

***WARNING****

As you scroll down, there are pictures of the older brother dead on the slab. Not pretty. It wouldn't be an open casket funeral.

http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU

If that blown up backpack is from the 2nd bomb, it's not the 19 year old's bag. Is the naked guy they arrested the older brother?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Build Your Own Conspiracy Theory
By Daniel Bier On 04.18.2012 · 18 Comments

As I recently learned, it is a bad idea to joke about conspiracies. They are serious business to some people. But if you are interested in inventing your own conspiracy theory for fun or profit, there is a time-tested formula:

1) Pick bad thing X that happened (it doesn’t matter what or when).

2) Postulate a conspiracy was behind it* (it doesn’t matter who or why). This is all you need to get going, but there are a few techniques you can use to fill in the blanks about what really happened during X.

3) Cherry pick factoids, take details out of context, mine quotes from public figures, elevate obscure minor incidents to center stage, juxtapose unrelated events, obsess over coincidence, point to suspicious lack of evidence that (if it existed) would support your theory, and always, always have pictures with big red arrows pointing to nothing in particular.
The general rule is: stitch together everything that vaguely supports your theory or calls into question the mainstream explanation, and ignore or deny everything that does not fit.

4) In later stages, once your campaign to uncover the truth is well-developed, create a really poorly-produced internet “documentary,” set it to scary music, and have your college roommate narrate it.

5) Denounce skeptics and scientists who debunk your claims as tools of the conspiracy, and make it clear that anyone who doubts your theory is a Moreaun human-sheep hybrid creature afflicted with narcolepsy. Tell them they need to, “Wake UP, SHEEPLE!”

6) Compile a list of a tiny number of “experts” that support some of your claims, and use it to lend a veneer of scientific credibility to your theory. Wherever possible, use misattributed, unsourced, and quotes taken out of context from experts who do not support your theory to imply they do.

7) Create lists of “unanswered questions” that, regardless of how well-answered, will always remain “unanswered.”

Rinse. Repeat.

Events ripe for potential conspiracy theories:
The Space Shuttle Challenger disaster
The Lusitania
World Trade Center Building 6
The Titanic
The Tangshan Earthquake or any natural disaster
The 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic
AIDS
Death of Ronald Reagan

Potential conspirators:
Jews. Always the Jews.
President (any president)
United Nations
Pentagon/military-industrial complex
CIA
British royal family
HAARP
Federal Reserve (and bankers generally)
Robber barons
Council on Foreign Relations
Trilateral Commission
The Bilderberg Conference

Mythical groups potentially behind anything:
Ancient aliens. Always ancient aliens.
New World Order
Illuminati
Free Masons
Reptilians

Example: a conspiracy theory I invented about the RMS Titanic.

Image

It’s the only explanation… that makes absolutely no sense.

* Or, if a conspiracy really was behind it, add some unnecessary elements or another layer of conspiracy on top of what is generally accepted to have happened, just to blunt Occam’s Razor. For example: the Black Hand really did assassinate Archduke Ferdinand… but there was a second shooter on the roof of the cafe! Or: yeah, Mohammad Atta did it… but the CIA helped him!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Thanks for caring.

I will continue to mock.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:53 am 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
Krazy Ivan wrote:
Q.Bovifs wrote:
Lies. All lies to cushion and expand the implementation of internet restrictions and


:scratch:

So.......not the "NRA/gun" thing anymore? It seems like you are just going with the "This is part of a larger conspiracy so the govrnment can ________" theory.

I get the mistrust of the gov thing. But when you keep changing your narrative, it gives creedence to those who just dismiss allegations of government secrets as the ramblings of crazy people.

I know they (govornment) are behind some shit that they don't want us to know about, but you keep changing the "why" portion of this alleged conspiracy...

I don't have a particular narrative - speculation may change as certain things become known in a fluid situation - but I was and still am highly suspicious of things like this, and for good reason.



Um. Not entirely true. But I'll drop it and pretend that you weren't being so matter of fact about the NRA thing a few days ago.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:08 am 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
You know something has seemed fishy with this shit all along.


No, I don't.

Q.Bovifs wrote:
I understand it is your job and all to quell intelligent inquiry and critical thought regarding things like this - you seem fit upon serving a certain purpose here, and I admire your commitment - but you can take a lunch break and at least let a shred of honesty through once in a while.


That isn't fair. I have a differing viewpoint than you. Nothing more. Nothing less. You don't care for that sort of thing. If someone doesn't jump to some far fetched conclusion before the facts come out, they are your enemy and they are trying to silence the poor, oppressed Panther. Not so, my friend.

From the begining, I said I had no idea what happened and was going to wait. You, however, jumped all over the "Government is going to say this was a Right Wing NRA guy so they can take away our guns!" thing until it became a "The governemnt is going to use this to take away our internet" thing. It's ever changing and I just pointed it out to you. By no means do I think you should stop throwing shit at the wall and hoping (yes hoping) something will stick.

Everyone who has a differing viewpoint is not your enemy. You have a theory....or several running theories. I don't, in this case. I am watching things unfold...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:19 am 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
My point is to just highlight inconsistencies in the highly peculiar event so that the Gallery can pay attention to see if certain things happen or not.

There is no one "belief" or "theory" really.

More like - "Jeez, I hope (this) doesn't lead to (that). Let's keep an eye out." Stressing vigilance and critical thought over complacency and blind trust, that's all.

. . . but now you are going to TELL ME what I'm doing and thinking again, right? :roll:

Is it time to start swearing at you yet? :scratch:


I certainly hope not.

I will say that if this truely is your "point", it gets a little diluted when you present things in a "Watch! _____ is going to happen!" sort of way. Instead of the way you presented it in your last post. Watching those who watch us is perfectly acceptable and understandable...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:44 am 
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Many are speculating that they guy hiding in the crook of the department store as they turned the corner was a FED. They were tracking them. Looks like he hits a button on his wrist and holds his ear piece.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:51 am 
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Hmmm. Interesting.


But would the Feds release a video with a fed in it if they didn't want us to know about the whole tracking thing? Wouldn't they, at the very least, doctor the video and remove the ear digging guy?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:54 am 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
Hmmm. Interesting.


But would the Feds release a video with a fed in it if they didn't want us to know about the whole tracking thing? Wouldn't they, at the very least, doctor the video and remove the ear digging guy?


That would seem to be the smart thing to do.

Or maybe the guy isn't an FBI agent at all.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:55 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Or maybe the guy isn't an FBI agent at all.



So he's just some guy who's digging in his ear? :roll: Okay, Speeps...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:58 am 
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100 pages...read about 2

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:00 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
100 pages...read about 2


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:01 am 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
Hmmm. Interesting.


But would the Feds release a video with a fed in it if they didn't want us to know about the whole tracking thing? Wouldn't they, at the very least, doctor the video and remove the ear digging guy?


Arrogance. Nobody is gonna figure it out. If they do, we'll just call them crazy or kill them.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:10 am 
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Mom talking about the FBI again yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdoTsiSk7Yc


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:11 am 
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5 shot to death in downstate Manchester; Suspect in custody

Updated at 11:00 AM today

Five people were shot to death inside a home in downstate Manchester, Illinois, Wednesday, April 24, 2013.


April 24, 2013 (MANCHESTER, Ill.) -- The bodies of five people who had been shot to death were found early Wednesday in a house in a tiny southwestern Illinois town, and authorities said a suspect was injured and taken into custody a short time later.

Illinois State Police spokeswoman Monique Bond would only say that the five were homicide victims, but could not confirm how they died. But two area school superintendents said they received calls from county sheriffs before 6 a.m. informing them that victims had been shot to death at a house in Manchester and that a suspect was at large.

The Scott County Sheriff's Office declined to comment to The Associated Press early Wednesday.

Stevens said that he was told by the sheriff's office in nearby Green County that the suspect was captured after a brief car chase that included gunfire.

Manchester Mayor Ronald Drake said the suspect was injured in the chase and taken to a hospital.

Drake, who lives a block from the house where the shooting occurred, said the shootings happened at about 4:30 a.m.

Roberts and Stevens said they were waiting to hear if any of the victims were children who attended schools in their districts.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:19 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
5 shot to death in downstate Manchester; Suspect in custody

Updated at 11:00 AM today

Five people were shot to death inside a home in downstate Manchester, Illinois, Wednesday, April 24, 2013.


April 24, 2013 (MANCHESTER, Ill.) -- The bodies of five people who had been shot to death were found early Wednesday in a house in a tiny southwestern Illinois town, and authorities said a suspect was injured and taken into custody a short time later.

Illinois State Police spokeswoman Monique Bond would only say that the five were homicide victims, but could not confirm how they died. But two area school superintendents said they received calls from county sheriffs before 6 a.m. informing them that victims had been shot to death at a house in Manchester and that a suspect was at large.

The Scott County Sheriff's Office declined to comment to The Associated Press early Wednesday.

Stevens said that he was told by the sheriff's office in nearby Green County that the suspect was captured after a brief car chase that included gunfire.

Manchester Mayor Ronald Drake said the suspect was injured in the chase and taken to a hospital.

Drake, who lives a block from the house where the shooting occurred, said the shootings happened at about 4:30 a.m.

Roberts and Stevens said they were waiting to hear if any of the victims were children who attended schools in their districts.


So, is Manchester, Illinois in Boston, Massachusetts now?

When did this bit of black magic happen?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:20 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:23 am 
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^^^ Hell of a name for a cartoonist ... "HORSEY".

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:27 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
5 shot to death in downstate Manchester; Suspect in custody

Updated at 11:00 AM today

Five people were shot to death inside a home in downstate Manchester, Illinois, Wednesday, April 24, 2013.


April 24, 2013 (MANCHESTER, Ill.) -- The bodies of five people who had been shot to death were found early Wednesday in a house in a tiny southwestern Illinois town, and authorities said a suspect was injured and taken into custody a short time later.

Illinois State Police spokeswoman Monique Bond would only say that the five were homicide victims, but could not confirm how they died. But two area school superintendents said they received calls from county sheriffs before 6 a.m. informing them that victims had been shot to death at a house in Manchester and that a suspect was at large.

The Scott County Sheriff's Office declined to comment to The Associated Press early Wednesday.

Stevens said that he was told by the sheriff's office in nearby Green County that the suspect was captured after a brief car chase that included gunfire.

Manchester Mayor Ronald Drake said the suspect was injured in the chase and taken to a hospital.

Drake, who lives a block from the house where the shooting occurred, said the shootings happened at about 4:30 a.m.

Roberts and Stevens said they were waiting to hear if any of the victims were children who attended schools in their districts.


So, is Manchester, Illinois in Boston, Massachusetts now?

When did this bit of black magic happen?


Shit.

Thought I created a new thread.

My bad.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:30 am 
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Senator said that law enforcement had info of a possible bombing before the bombs went off.

http://www.infowars.com/chambliss-law-enforcement-agency-may-have-known-about-boston-bombing-in-advance/


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:37 am 
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Naked truth?
http://www.infowars.com/same-guy/


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