I don't think that's right. Russell is arguably the greatest player ever. Certainly the most impactful defender. Duncan can't be compared to those great centers.

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Duncan has never won with the types of players that Magic or even Jordan won with. Tony Parker may have been a little underrated and I always have liked Ginobili but If you look at the Spurs have done since 1997 it is awfully impressive. He has never been given his due mostly because of his style of play but he was a dominant player for a great number of years and it was always funny how various players over the years (Kobe Bryant) even (Garnett) were placed above yet neither of those players ever won anything without the benefit of playing with all star players. Duncan has. This was something I debated with the great Goff and Bernstein a few years ago also

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Except when he sees him as a body who will put his nuts in your face and then walk off without celebrating because he's a Grown. Ass. Man.

Six of one, really.

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I was thinking in terms of Winning vs. his competition

He had David Robinson for a couple of those, didn't he?

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I don't think that Akeem was better than Tim Duncan. Shaq was more dominant but Shaq never guarded Duncan though Duncan has guarded Shaq. Also Shaq has never won anything without great guard play. Duncan has. There was nothing that Tim Duncan could not do on a basketball court. The worst part of his game was his free throw shooting and even that is about 65-70% for his career. He has never been publicized as the best player of his era that is why most people never give him the nod. He is most definitely in the discussion as an all time great. The problem with me is biology I never saw the guys of the 60's and 70's I saw Gilmore toward the end. Duncan is definitely a better player than he. I never like Kareem because He never rebounded enough for me particulary in the later years. I thought the Lakers were much more of Magic's team during the 80's

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David Robinson was done at the time Duncan entered the league. He was nothing more than a defender at that point. He was not the scorer that he had been earlier in his career. Injurie rendered him nothing more than a defender and that was only one championship. Duncan was best player on the team at that point also.

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So do you mean to say it doesn't become ridiculous if you make a list for the top ten and find no place to put Duncan?

You may be right about that, I don't know much about the guys you're mentioning except for Hakeem and Shaq.

I actually think Shaq underachieved for a guy with his size and ability, which I know is crazy to say about a guy with four rings. Kobe was right about him: he was often out of shape and lazy. Shaq should have and could have dominated the league. I think Duncan's been more consistent than Shaq statistically, and when it comes to leadership and other intangibles there's really no comparison - Duncan is superior. As far as best of the past 15 or so years, I think it comes down to Kobe vs Duncan.

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Agreed. Shaq was the best player on those Laker teams that won. But his decline was rapid and he appeared to alway be injured after that last one. He also never won without a great guard next to him (Kobe) and (Wade). He is not even given much credit for the Heat's first championship. He was never the defensive player that Duncan was and Duncan was a better rebounder. Shaq's size made him dominant though he somewhat of a game on the block. Duncan was a much more skilled player than he. I give Duncan the edge over Kobe because his teams have been consistently better than Kobe's. THere were years like this one when Kobe played with high level players and his teams have done squat. He was the second best player on the first three championship teams. He could never when during the years in which his team was not decidedly the best team in the league. Duncan has. There were some years in which the Lakers were the heavy favorite and San Antonio knock them off. There were also years in which the Lakers were predicted to be in the running to win it all like this year and barely scraped into they playoffs. There were also a number of years in which they were swept out of the playoffs. Kobe has to own some of those failures

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Shaq might be the greatest player ever.

And Robinson wasn't done when Duncan entered the league. He was still a top center when they won the first one. Duncan was the main guy the second time for sure. I think he won the MVP for the season and in the Finals that year. But Robinson could still be a force. He wasn't scoring as much but I think he got about 20 rebounds in the last game.

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Kobe was the second best player during the three championships, but once Shaq left in 2005 there was really nothing left. Kobe endured non-competitiveness for about three years after Shaq left, which allowed him to build up some impressive stats while playing on mediocre teams. When Kobe got legitimate talent to play with, he went to three more Finals. They probably should have been competitive in PJ's last year in 2011 I think, but I don't know what happened. So when he's had people to work with, Kobe's record has been as impressive as Duncan's in my opinion.

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Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

By being better than Oscar, LeBron, and at least 2 of those centers.

He was easily better than Jerry Lucas.

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Duncan was easily the best player on all four title teams. Robinson wasn't as good as Duncan in '99, and it was by a pretty wide margin.

And Shaq isn't close to the best player ever and he's not top 10 of all time. He was the most dominant player in the league for about 3 seasons. Imagine if Duncan got to play with Kobe and Wade(2 of the 5-6 best SG of all time) instead of Ginobli?

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Based on what?

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Success against their peers, resume, stats compared to their peers, success, common sense, etc. Lucas was probably a better college player, Ill give you that. There's no case to be made that he's in Duncan's class in the NBA.

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Shaq is definitely one of the top ten players ever and some basketball experts consider him hands down the best that ever played. Yeah, he ate his way out of greatness prematurely but I just listened to two goofs talk about the what ifs of Grant Hill. Terry's top ten has about 60 guys in it.

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Their peers? Lucas' peers were Russell and Chamberlain and Willis Reed. Duncan's peers are Chris Bosh and Luol Deng.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
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Try again man. Duncan's peers are Shaq(best player ever, right?), KG, Dirk, Chris Webber, etc.

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When you get into the top ten players ever, and you're talking about players who were no worse than Oscar Robertson or Kobe Bryant, then longevity has to count for something. It's part of the overall greatness package.

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Outside of Shaq they still aren't the caliber of guys Lucas went against. I do think Duncan was better than Lucas, but it's a better comparison than putting him as one of the ten best ever.

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No, it's not. KG was better than Lucas too. And Dirk was better than Cowens. And Dolph Schayes flat out sucked. Much love for Sam Jones though. Seems like today he is the most underrated player of that era.

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No.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
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With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Good talk, Joe.

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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