But aren't those world class athletes on the television? Or are they invisible if you are watching on TV?

My only point is there is a difference. When you watch television, you're watching what the guy holding the camera wants you to see. I would think if you really consider yourself a fan of something you would want to make the effort to see it for yourself as much as you possibly could. I realize some people have limitations. But for most of us here those limitations are self-imposed, i.e. choices.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

This is the type of argument that could only take place on the internet. It's the perfect combination of low stakes and incredible vitriol.

_________________

I don't see any vitriol.

_________________

Maybe just an argument that lasts much, much longer than it should then.

_________________

Take the money out of the equation. Let's leave to just the pros, and the weather is a pleasant afternoon in early October or an evening in late September. Where do you want to watch the game: six rows up on the 45-yard line? Club level at mid field? A sky box from the 30 yard line? Or from the couch in front of your high def monitor?

Whether the sport is football, baseball, basketball or hockey, in which scenario do you say "fuck it, it ain't the money and there's no hassle getting in and out of the game, I just would rather watch it on TV?"

_________________
DRINK BƎTTƎR. @theRIPH

So Dans Wife & Son go to the Hawks game, & he stays home to watch it on TV? Yea, that's normal. What a Dick.

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Lol wut?

_________________

There's the vitriol!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I guess your post accurately describes the Bernstein sycophants...But with little modification--as above--it might just as accurately describe several of the posters here.

_________________

Virtually every person who considers themselves a football I know has seen a live football game.

Of course the experience is different. So what? I'm a fan of Louis CK but I've never seen him live either.

That's why your thought doesn't make sense. People consume products in the simplest way possible. You listen to your favorite bands on mp3. I watch football on television. When it's convenient to see them live, you go see them live. When it's convenient to see football live, I go see it live.

I believe it has to do with the ideas of minors vs. adults in our society. I have no real interest in attending high school football games because there are options I like better. I don't find it distasteful though.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Of course it's the same argument. You don't think the popularity of the NFL should be defined by how many people watch the game at home because you don't consider those to be real fans and instead they just like a "tv show".

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

recognizing the painfully obvious fact that before there was television, there was still football or any other sport that's been around since before the 1940's, i think this is a horrendously narrow argument. when you could only listen to the radio or go to a game, i sincerely doubt there was much of an issue with people declaring "You're not a fan if you're just listening to your team on the radio". And before the radio, there was the newspaper. Why, sports all over the world must have had this issue for years! Imagine the royal scumbags of the DR Congo telling their peasants they're not true fans of their national team unless they go to their games.

i saw this argument on a saints forum years ago where someone had the audacity to say that if you weren't going to the dome to watch the saints you were merely a "rooter", not a "fan". there's no convincing them otherwise, but it's as simple minded as you get when you don't factor in all of the things that make you a fan of something.

That's not the argument I'm making. That seems more like an admonishment that people should attend the games in person. Of course there are many things that make one a fan. My point, and maybe I'm not making it well, is that if you're truly a fan of football, you would want to see live football. Many people have no interest in that at all. For many, many people it begins and ends with turning on a television. And it isn't the same thing. I could spend the next two days watching Youtube and if I proclaimed that "I have now seen the Stones as much as Aggravated Bob has" you'd call me an idiot. And you'd be corrrect.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I've never said that. But it's just part of the equation. You keep insisting it's the defining part.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Television viewership is simply the most accurate metric since at any given time it's a measure of who is showing interest in it. Just remember I'm not even talking about the Super Bowl. I'm talking about a meaningless Sunday Night football game.

That's why it is linked to your idea that people that don't attend games aren't "truly fans" even though NFL stadiums are filled with higher percentages than any other sport in this country too.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

i've seen football live. rare has been the moment where i needed to see it live to get the best out of it. i don't know anyone who's a fan of football who hasn't wanted to see it live or hasn't seen it live. are you drawing this from internet comments or from actual people you know?

football is one of the few sports that's actually best represented on TV because of how it's shot and displayed.

I agree that the NFL in particular is a "made for TV" game. I'm not sure it's "best represented" that way though. Being at a live event is different. And the vast majority of people claiming to be NFL fans never see an NFL game in person. That makes them fans of a TV show. It's easy to turn on a TV. It's just as easy to turn it off.

What does being a fan mean? That you care about something? That you have an inordinate amount of interest in the subject? I don't know how you want to define being a fan of something. And anyway, I don't think there's any litmus test for being a fan. Do whatever you want. I'm just telling you how I see the vast majority of people claiming to be "big football fans". It really is about choices. Let's not go to an extreme example like your peasants in the Congo. Most people in this forum who would state that it's too difficult and expensive to go aren't destitute. They've just chosen to spend their money on other things. Football isn't that important to them. And flipping a switch on a TV is easy. I don't think that necessarily makes them less of a fan than the Hawks fan who has seen 2100 straight games in person, but it probably does.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I've often thought of being a golf club

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Hey 99%, I'm giving my money over today for my Bears tickets....1/3 of the season is already paid for by 3rd party who wants the Cowboys game.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

This is an excellent chance for people to prove that they are REAL BIG BOY FOOTBALL FANS.

The Packers game is always a good way to make up my money as well.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

So all those fans of struggling teams who don't attend games aren't real fans. Yes, spend your hard-earned money on an inferior product to prove your fandom!

_________________
-- source

Why would any of you care whether or not someone considers you a "real fan?"

_________________

Somebody gives me free Bears tickets, I'm there. Way better than TV. If I'm rich --> season tickets, no doubt.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

It seems many are offended by my viewpoint. It's not a judgment. Just an observation. I would suggest at some point being a fan becomes a negative. For example, that moron in the commercial with "Santo 10" tattooed on his head is undoubtedly more of a fan (read: fanatic) than most. That probably isn't a good thing.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I try every year to get tickets to the Masters, but have not been lucky enough to get them. I used to think I really like golf and that tournament in particular. I guess I've been wrong all these years...I only like a TV show.

_________________