We all consider him to be at worst a top 2 coach and he's won 4 championships but I'm starting to believe he might be overrated. He beat some awful teams in the Finals (excluding Pistons) and has been bounced from the playoffs by awful teams. I don't think he should be mentioned in the same breath as Phil Jackson. What say you?

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

No.

/popovichreply

I don't think he is in the same league as Phil.

But I also do not think he is overrated. He is the best coach in the league right now. No doubt he had a bad game last night, but everyone has em. That is not reason to jump to him being overrated.

What he has done with some of the pieces around Parker and Duncan through the years has been amazing.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I think this is going too far, Nas. You can't hold the quality of Finals competition against him. From 2000 to about 2007 or so, the Western conference was the toughest conference by a mile. Early on you had the LA dynasty, Portland, Utah, and Sacramento. Dallas and Phoenix arrived on the scene later. I think the Nuggets or some other team missed the playoffs during this timeframe, despite having a record good enough for like the 5th or 6th seed in the East. Pop faced brutally tough competition during his four titles, there's no question about it.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Top 2 coach currently coaching? Top 2 coach ever? Top 2 coach in the past 20 years?

Wouldn't he have had to beat great Western teams to be in the position to paste an Eastern opponent?

No chance in hell do I pick Phil over Greg.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Here is my problem. Far too many people have similar crazy thoughts. Phil beat the best teams and the best players. Pop doesn't have a great Finals victory on his resume. Phil did his damage in 2 different eras too. As a top seed Pop lost far too often. He's in a lower tier after Phil and Red.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

How many seasons did Pop have the best player in the NBA on his team?

Arguably 1999 when they won their first title. Other than that, never.

_________________
Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

I mean all time. Pop has some terrible meltdowns on his resume but people still put him above guys like Phil. In reality 5 Finals trips is kind of disappointing considering how often they have been a top 2 seed. He's never repeated either.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Personally, i think Phil's the best. I think Pop is excellent, and I'm not sure where he should rank historically. I'd agree with you on the "overrated" part if guys are putting him above someone like Phil, but other than that, I don't think he's overrated.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I understand the first part of your statement, as the '99 Knicks, '03 Nets, and '07 Cavs were all teams that went beyond expectations. No dispute there. I don't know how those teams reached the finals those years.

What I will disagree with is where you say they've been bounced from the playoffs by "awful" teams. Here are the non-championship playoff losses and opponents for the Spurs since 2000:

2000: First Round loss to Phoenix (3-1)
2001: Conference Finals loss to Los Angeles (4-0)
2002: Second Round loss to Los Angeles (4-1)
2004: Second Round loss to Los Angeles (4-2)
2006: Second Round loss to Dallas (4-3)
2008: Conference Finals loss to Los Angeles (4-1)
2009: First Round loss to Dallas (4-1)
2010: Second Round loss to Phoenix (4-0)
2011: First Round loss to Memphis (4-2)
2012: Conference Finals loss to OKC (4-2)

At the most I'll give you the first round loss to Phoenix in 2000, but even they had Jason Kidd in his prime, and a young Shawn Marion. But none of those teams were "awful" in my opinion and in fact, six of those losses were to teams that went on to the Finals.

_________________
Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

Only the 2 resting in heaven can be mentioned in the same breath as him.

_________________

He's had the greatest PF in history and arguably (by people like FF) the greatest player of this era for his entire career.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Thanks, spmack2Men.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Memphis was an 8th seed. Too many 1st and 2nd round exits when your annually a top 3 seed. I give him a pass for the Lakers. That meltdown against OKC was awful.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

No chance in hell? Really? I mean I get having an opinion that Pop is a better coach than Phil. I don't agree with it at all, but I understand it. But to say there is no chance in hell is just silly.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

For nearly every year of his career Phil Jackson had two top-50 all time players on his roster.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Idiot double post. Probably an idiot point too. Idiot.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Duncan is the greatest PF of all time and David Robinson was a top 50 player. Ginobili and Parker are HoF players too. Pop hasn't lacked talent. 13 trips to the Finals and 11 rings trumps Pop in just about everyway. Beyond that he had to manage personalities that Pop wouldn't put up with for 1 min.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

What teams since, say, 1980, have one because their demonstably best player was a PF or C?

I'm not suggesting this is a good point ... I just don't know the answer(s).

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

83 Sixers
94, 95 Rockets
2000-2002 Lakers
99, 03, 05, 07 Spurs
2011 Mavs

Off the top of my head.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I believe Reader and so discussed this in the RIP Spurs thread.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I would probably add the Pistons team with Rasheed and didn't the Lakers win in like 81' when Kareem was still better than Magic? Jordan rewrote the rules on needing a big to win.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Huh?

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Bad typo. I meant Reader and I.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The reason I didn't include Sheed and Kareem was that he said demonstrably better. I wasn't sure. I believe KG was the best player on that Celtics team, but Pierce was the best in the Finals.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm with you on Pop vs Jackson, but I don't think you need to knock Pop's rings to make your case. The Spurs didn't just beat the Nets to win a title, they had to go through teams like the Kings, Lakers, Wolves, and Suns to get to those Finals series. Like i said before, the WC during the Spurs reign was replete with Finals worthy teams, any of whom could have beaten teams like the Nets and Pistons just like the Spurs did.

Ginobli may make the HOF, but if there was a NBA HOF I doubt he'd make it. I think he got to the league when was already 25, and while I'm a huge fan (except for last night) I'd put him in the "really good" category before anything else. Despite the good core, I don't think the Spurs were the most talented team during the 2000s. i'd place the Lakers, Suns, and maybe even the mid-2000s Mavericks ahead of the Spurs in terms of top to bottom talent. Duncan is one of the best ever, but Ginobli and Parker are nowhere close to other second-star championship players like Kobe and Wade.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

You know I don't read things like that. I might learn something.

Although I will say, given my specific wording, you can scrap the Lakers entries in your list. Shaq wasn't any more important than Kobe; without each other they don't win anything at that time.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George