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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:03 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Your thoughts on gay pedophiles is a horrible example and has already been disspelled because gays are not necessarily pedophiles and pedophiles are not necessarily gay.


You see, my dear, all certified mail is registered, but registered mail is not necessarily certified.


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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:08 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
We UNDERSTAND his perspective.


I know you do. I don't believe Keeping Score does.

leashyourkids wrote:
The difference between those examples and being gay is that being gay doesn't hurt anyone else.


True. However, until very recently homosexuality was considered a deviant behavior in American society. And it will still get one put to death in certain other societies. Organized religions by their very nature are busybodies. While I disagree with the stance of the Catholic Church on the issue, I find it difficult to criticize Seacrest for his beliefs in the teachings of his church. Although I will say, in my experience, the religious tend to pick and choose which tenets of their faiths they really believe. Like the great Catholic Phil Donahue who was quite devout until he wanted a divorce at which point his Catholicism was suddenly inconvenient. I don't know Seacrest except on this board so I'll give his convictions the benefit of the doubt. But I think people in general- and the very religious in particular- are most often hypocrites. The world is really one big Who Ya Crappin'.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:14 am 
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Bagels wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Your thoughts on gay pedophiles is a horrible example and has already been disspelled because gays are not necessarily pedophiles and pedophiles are not necessarily gay.


You see, my dear, all certified mail is registered, but registered mail is not necessarily certified.


I'll tell you a little secret about zip codes...they're meaningless.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:03 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Keeping Score wrote:
But leash already dissected, destructed, and dispelled that line of reasoning.

We're gonna need a little more that than.

I realize that you said very little so that you could get out of it as needed at a later time, but you basically said/implied that gays are as 'bad' as pedophiles.


I think you understand the basis for his thought whether you agree with him or not. He's coming from the perspective of the major religions, in his case Catholicism. It's an absolutist stance. He's not a moral relativist. He's only comparing gays and pedophiles to the degree that being born a certain way is not a justification for behavior. And in our modern secular society the "fact" that gays are "born that way" is often used to condone behavior that is considered a sin in his religion (and most others).



I think the problem is that other than RFDC and JORR, no one else in this thread seems to understand the problems that moral relativism will, has and will always lead to.

Where does this all end?

Who gets to decide?

Why did you get your way?

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:14 am 
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Maybe government should get out of the marriage business altogether if you can't make it available for all consenting adults

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:18 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Maybe government should get out of the marriage business altogether if you can't make it available for all consenting adults


Maybe that can be the start of a straightforward discussion where other folks viewpoints are listened to and respected.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:20 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Where does this all end?


With every adult having the same rights and benefits regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation.

Seacrest wrote:
Who gets to decide?


There is nothing to decide.

Seacrest wrote:
Why did you get your way?


Because "my way" doesn't deny people rights and benefits.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:21 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Maybe government should get out of the marriage business altogether if you can't make it available for all consenting adults


That's my stance.

Axe all of the social tax policy related to marriage, government shouldn't be involved.

Axe it all, except for the stuff related to child birth.


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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:22 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Where does this all end?


With every adult having the same rights and benefits regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation.

Seacrest wrote:
Who gets to decide?


There is nothing to decide.

Seacrest wrote:
Why did you get your way?


Because "my way" doesn't deny people rights and benefits.



Start at the beginning.

Define a right.

Now tell me how we came about them and where they came from.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:23 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Maybe government should get out of the marriage business altogether if you can't make it available for all consenting adults
I think it should be the opposite. If Christian churches want to have their own definition of marriage they should choose a different name for it. No modern religion invented marriage. The origins likely predate any organized religion.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:25 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Why did you get your way?

Why should you get your way?

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:26 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Why did you get your way?

Why should you get your way?


Because Jesus, that's why.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:42 am 
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The government incentivizes and discourages all kinds of behaviors. I'm not sure if building a society based upon heterosexual marriage is a sound philosophy or not. But I will say that if that's one of our societal principles, making divorces so easy to come by makes it seem rather disingenuous.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:51 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Keeping Score wrote:
But leash already dissected, destructed, and dispelled that line of reasoning.

We're gonna need a little more that than.

I realize that you said very little so that you could get out of it as needed at a later time, but you basically said/implied that gays are as 'bad' as pedophiles.


I think you understand the basis for his thought whether you agree with him or not. He's coming from the perspective of the major religions, in his case Catholicism. It's an absolutist stance. He's not a moral relativist. He's only comparing gays and pedophiles to the degree that being born a certain way is not a justification for behavior. And in our modern secular society the "fact" that gays are "born that way" is often used to condone behavior that is considered a sin in his religion (and most others).



JORR, frankly, shut up.

Seacrest said what he said, he's a big boy, let him answer for his own comments. You're coming off as a lackey rather than (for lack of a better phrase) a friend of the court.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:35 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Keeping Score wrote:
But leash already dissected, destructed, and dispelled that line of reasoning.

We're gonna need a little more that than.

I realize that you said very little so that you could get out of it as needed at a later time, but you basically said/implied that gays are as 'bad' as pedophiles.


I think you understand the basis for his thought whether you agree with him or not. He's coming from the perspective of the major religions, in his case Catholicism. It's an absolutist stance. He's not a moral relativist. He's only comparing gays and pedophiles to the degree that being born a certain way is not a justification for behavior. And in our modern secular society the "fact" that gays are "born that way" is often used to condone behavior that is considered a sin in his religion (and most others).



JORR, frankly, shut up.

Seacrest said what he said, he's a big boy, let him answer for his own comments. You're coming off as a lackey rather than (for lack of a better phrase) a friend of the court.



Yeah, I'm the number one lackey in this forum. He did say what he said and when I began posting there were guys twisting it while he wasn't around. The girls in this forum aren't the only ones who sometimes require defenders.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:11 pm 
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JORR, it is a bit odd. You keep explaining that you agree with us or me or whoever, but you are stating Seacrest's points.

Here's a thought - let Seacrest speak for himself, and Seacrest - actually state what you think. Problem solved.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Maybe government should get out of the marriage business altogether if you can't make it available for all consenting adults


Maybe that can be the start of a straightforward discussion where other folks viewpoints are listened to and respected.


Cry me a river. You don't even have a viewpoint. Why don't you try stating one, and THEN we can make fun of you for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:18 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Keeping Score wrote:
But leash already dissected, destructed, and dispelled that line of reasoning.

We're gonna need a little more that than.

I realize that you said very little so that you could get out of it as needed at a later time, but you basically said/implied that gays are as 'bad' as pedophiles.


I think you understand the basis for his thought whether you agree with him or not. He's coming from the perspective of the major religions, in his case Catholicism. It's an absolutist stance. He's not a moral relativist. He's only comparing gays and pedophiles to the degree that being born a certain way is not a justification for behavior. And in our modern secular society the "fact" that gays are "born that way" is often used to condone behavior that is considered a sin in his religion (and most others).



JORR, frankly, shut up.

Seacrest said what he said, he's a big boy, let him answer for his own comments. You're coming off as a lackey rather than (for lack of a better phrase) a friend of the court.



Yeah, I'm the number one lackey in this forum. He did say what he said and when I began posting there were guys twisting it while he wasn't around. The girls in this forum aren't the only ones who sometimes require defenders.


The (apparently) unclear inference was that I didn't actually think your intention was to be a lackey but rather a so-called friend of the court, but that it was coming off far more as the former than the latter. Now go get your shinebox.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:

The (apparently) unclear inference was that I didn't actually think your intention was to be a lackey but rather a so-called friend of the court, but that it was coming off far more as the former than the latter. Now go get your shinebox.



:lol: Actually, I was just bored and going back and forth with leashyourkids.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:

The (apparently) unclear inference was that I didn't actually think your intention was to be a lackey but rather a so-called friend of the court, but that it was coming off far more as the former than the latter. Now go get your shinebox.



:lol: Actually, I was just bored and going back and forth with leashyourkids.


Nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Here is Crest's original post a-gain.

Seacrest wrote:

So if someone has no choice in determining their sexual preference, does that possibly mean that a pedophile has no choice either?

And if so, why is the law currently discriminating against them?


Then leash responds.

leashyourkids wrote:

It's a moot point because pedophiles infringe on the rights of others (like the right to grow up without being molested by a pedophile). Gays don't.


Seems logical.

But Seacrest fires back.

Seacrest wrote:

It's not a moot point because the theory you posit, is not always the case.


Then we get a whole lot of hemming and hawing.

Let's clear some things up.

Pedophilia refers to any person over 16 years of age being sexually attracted to prepubescent children (under 13).

I'll safely assume that no one here thinks a child under 13 can give consent to having sex. Therefore leash was correct in declaring Seacrest's original point moot.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:

The (apparently) unclear inference was that I didn't actually think your intention was to be a lackey but rather a so-called friend of the court, but that it was coming off far more as the former than the latter. Now go get your shinebox.



:lol: Actually, I was just bored and going back and forth with leashyourkids.



Very well then.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:31 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Here is Crest's original post a-gain.

Seacrest wrote:

So if someone has no choice in determining their sexual preference, does that possibly mean that a pedophile has no choice either?

And if so, why is the law currently discriminating against them?


Then leash responds.

leashyourkids wrote:

It's a moot point because pedophiles infringe on the rights of others (like the right to grow up without being molested by a pedophile). Gays don't.


Seems logical.

But Seacrest fires back.

Seacrest wrote:

It's not a moot point because the theory you posit, is not always the case.


Then we get a whole lot of hemming and hawing.

Let's clear some things up.

Pedophilia refers to any person over 16 years of age being sexually attracted to prepubescent children (under 13).

I'll safely assume that no one here thinks a child under 13 can give consent to having sex. Therefore leash was correct in declaring Seacrest's original point moot.


you just wish it were that simple, don't you TP? like the king of the north taking the iron throne? seemed like a simple plan.


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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Here is Crest's original post a-gain.

Seacrest wrote:

So if someone has no choice in determining their sexual preference, does that possibly mean that a pedophile has no choice either?

And if so, why is the law currently discriminating against them?


Then leash responds.

leashyourkids wrote:

It's a moot point because pedophiles infringe on the rights of others (like the right to grow up without being molested by a pedophile). Gays don't.


Seems logical.

But Seacrest fires back.

Seacrest wrote:

It's not a moot point because the theory you posit, is not always the case.


Then we get a whole lot of hemming and hawing.

Let's clear some things up.

Pedophilia refers to any person over 16 years of age being sexually attracted to prepubescent children (under 13).


I'll safely assume that no one here thinks a child under 13 can give consent to having sex. Therefore leash was correct in declaring Seacrest's original point moot.


That is your definition of pedophilia. Like it or not, it is not shared by literally millions of others.

We are back to where we started. If you want to live in a morally relativistic society, you aren't going to be able to get agreement with others. It's a nice sentiment on your part and nothing else.
You chose the rules yourself that you wanted to make and live by. So everyone must get to also.


I believe in a natural law, the one put forth by the likes of Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. Before we knew about God, the author of the natural law.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:21 pm 
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It is not my definition of pedophilia.

It is the definition of pedophilia.

pedophilia /pe·do·phil·ia/ (-fil´e-ah) a paraphilia in which an adult has recurrent, intense sexual urges or sexually arousing fantasies of engaging or repeatedly engages in sexual activity with a prepubertal child.pedophil´ic Dorland's Medical Dictionary for Health Consumers. © 2007 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.

ped·o·phil·i·a (p d -f l - , p d -) n. The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.

ped o·phile (-f l ) n.

ped o·phil i·ac (-f l - k ) adj. & n.

The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary Copyright © 2007, 2004 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Pedophilia Sex or sexual activity with children who have not reached puberty. Mentioned in: Sexual Perversions Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.

pedophilia [ped′əfil′ē·ə] Etymology: Gk, pais, child, philein, to love 1 an abnormal interest in children. 2 (in psychiatry) a psychosexual disorder in which the fantasy or act of engaging in sexual activity with prepubertal children is the preferred or exclusive means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification. It may be heterosexual or homosexual. Also spelled paedophilia. Also called pederosis. See also paraphilia. pedophilic, adj. Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.

Paedophilia A paraphilia involving hetero- or homosexuoerotic fantasy, activity or intercourse initiated by a postpubertal adolescent or adult male or female with prepubescent children Segen's Medical Dictionary. © 2012 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.

pedophilia [pe″do-fil´e-ah] a PARAPHILIA in which an adult desires or engages in sexual relations with a child; it may be either homosexual or heterosexual in nature. adj., adj pedophil´ic. Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition. © 2003 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.

pedophilia Psychiatry A paraphilia involving heterosexual or homosexual activity or intercourse between adults with children, especially prepubertal. See Child abuse, Ephebophilia, Incest, Nepiophilia, Pederasty, Sex tourism. Cf Gerontophilia. McGraw-Hill Concise Dictionary of Modern Medicine. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

pe·do·phil·i·a (pē'dō-fil'ē-ă), In psychiatry, an abnormal attraction to children by an adult for sexual purposes. [G. pais, child, + philos, fond] Farlex Partner Medical Dictionary © Farlex 2012

pe·do·phil·i·a (pē'dō-fil'ē-ă) An abnormal sexual attraction to children in an adult. Synonym(s): paedophilia. [G. pais, child, + philos, fond] Medical Dictionary for the Health Professions and Nursing © Farlex 2012

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:24 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:26 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
It is not my definition of pedophilia.

It is the definition of pedophilia.

pedophilia /pe·do·phil·ia/ (-fil´e-ah) a paraphilia in which an adult has recurrent, intense sexual urges or sexually arousing fantasies of engaging or repeatedly engages in sexual activity with a prepubertal child.pedophil´ic Dorland's Medical Dictionary for Health Consumers. © 2007 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.

ped·o·phil·i·a (p d -f l - , p d -) n. The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.

ped o·phile (-f l ) n.

ped o·phil i·ac (-f l - k ) adj. & n.

The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary Copyright © 2007, 2004 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Pedophilia Sex or sexual activity with children who have not reached puberty. Mentioned in: Sexual Perversions Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.

pedophilia [ped′əfil′ē·ə] Etymology: Gk, pais, child, philein, to love 1 an abnormal interest in children. 2 (in psychiatry) a psychosexual disorder in which the fantasy or act of engaging in sexual activity with prepubertal children is the preferred or exclusive means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification. It may be heterosexual or homosexual. Also spelled paedophilia. Also called pederosis. See also paraphilia. pedophilic, adj. Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.

Paedophilia A paraphilia involving hetero- or homosexuoerotic fantasy, activity or intercourse initiated by a postpubertal adolescent or adult male or female with prepubescent children Segen's Medical Dictionary. © 2012 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.

pedophilia [pe″do-fil´e-ah] a PARAPHILIA in which an adult desires or engages in sexual relations with a child; it may be either homosexual or heterosexual in nature. adj., adj pedophil´ic. Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition. © 2003 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.

pedophilia Psychiatry A paraphilia involving heterosexual or homosexual activity or intercourse between adults with children, especially prepubertal. See Child abuse, Ephebophilia, Incest, Nepiophilia, Pederasty, Sex tourism. Cf Gerontophilia. McGraw-Hill Concise Dictionary of Modern Medicine. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

pe·do·phil·i·a (pē'dō-fil'ē-ă), In psychiatry, an abnormal attraction to children by an adult for sexual purposes. [G. pais, child, + philos, fond] Farlex Partner Medical Dictionary © Farlex 2012

pe·do·phil·i·a (pē'dō-fil'ē-ă) An abnormal sexual attraction to children in an adult. Synonym(s): paedophilia. [G. pais, child, + philos, fond] Medical Dictionary for the Health Professions and Nursing © Farlex 2012



There are numerous societies that disagree with you.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and pretend that they don't exist but if you are typing on a computer with internet access then you are willfully choosing to ignore easily discoverable facts.

You chose to make your own rules, others chose to make their own. I know how this ends up. I'll spare you the "I told you so's."

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:28 pm 
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Please provide one medical definition of pedopbilia that differs from those I posted.

I'll wait.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:32 pm 
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Actually, I probably won't wait.

By diagnostic criteria of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, a pedophile is an individual who fantasizes about, is sexually aroused by, or experiences sexual urges toward prepubescent children (generally <13 years) for a period of at least 6 months. Generally, the individual must be at least 16 years of age and at least 5 years older than the juvenile of interest to meet criteria for pedophilia.

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 Post subject: Re: Bryan Fischer/ AFA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Please provide one medical definition of pedopbilia that differs from those I posted.

I'll wait.


I don't disagree with any number of those definitions.

You have a definition that other societies don't agree with. You can wait all you want. That's not going to change.

Where does it all end when you can't find agreement with others on this?

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