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 Post subject: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:30 am 
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Bernstein: Behind The Bulls Conflict


(CBS) Tension upstairs at the Berto Center brings back the good old days of Bulls basketball.

Not a day went by on the 1990s beat without the awareness of palpable antipathy simmering between general manager Jerry Krause and head coach Phil Jackson: no outcome or bit of news too small to be evaluated along the lines of their competing agendas and regular, spiteful skirmishing.

It was just the Bulls, then, operating at a high-functioning level of dysfunction.

So forgive some former reporters a bit of warm nostalgia over the past few days, as the frayed relationship between GM Gar Forman and head coach Tom Thibodeau has come to light after the team abruptly severed ties with veteran assistant coach Ron Adams. There is a similar dynamic recurring, now, that echoes the old discomfort.

Sources speaking to WSCR on the condition of anonymity provided a glimpse inside the hallways, painting a picture of two strong-willed men whose friendly cooperation has deteriorated due to both strategic disagreements and personality quirks that have caused familiarity to breed contempt.

Some important points, first. There is no question anywhere about Thibodeau’s prodigious tactical skill, or his dedication to his work. All understand that he is a defensive savant, and is able to create gameplans and execute them as well or better than his opposing counterpart on any given night.

Also, Forman is indeed a GM in full, with VP John Paxson now elevated above day-to-day operations, while remaining involved in larger-scale franchise decisions. This has been an ongoing process from the day Forman was promoted, but he is in charge of the roster, and not operating as a mere proxy for Paxson.

That noted, there are reasons the general manager and head coach have grown apart.


Minute-loads on key players in the regular season remain one sticking point. Forman believes he has continually assembled viable bench options, but then waits to see them forced into action by necessity after starters begin to crumble from overuse. He would prefer a deeper rotation employed earlier in the season, serving the dual purpose of familiarizing new players with their rigid, successful defensive concepts and holding off inevitable wear and tear on Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson and others.

Joking about the frustration, one source said “Ideally, they could let somebody else coach them in the regular season, then let Tom have them once the playoffs start.” Forman is frustrated by what now is a pattern – piling up victories to grab a high Eastern Conference seed, only to send a tired, depleted team out to fight for what really matters.

This concern underscores the team’s disappointment in Derrick Rose’s choice to stop his prescribed rehabilitation at the most critical juncture. They were hoping to have 30 games to start to work through the inevitable quarreling over his usage, but that is still to come.

Another lingering issue is that Thibodeau is, to put it simply, odd. He maintains no real life outside the walls of the practice facility, essentially living there. He is a constant presence, and his grim, obsessive demeanor weighs on the workplace. His casual interactions with others can be brusque, and he has been described as mostly unconcerned with anything not directly involved with coaching basketball.

Advised at one time to take a vacation, Thibodeau planned a week off. He was back at the Berto after one day.

Players began to feel so suffocated last year that they were choosing to work out by themselves at a gym less than a mile down the road. Even professional athletes who want and appreciate good coaching need room to breathe, time to let their guard down and not feel watched. Some Bulls had to sneak out to do it.

Forman is not exactly a politician, either, and his consolidation of power has brought with it an increasingly Krause-like insularity. Thibodeau – to his credit — has presented a consistent public message about everybody working together to win, and has been disappointed by what he feels have been Forman’s recent, unsolicited admissions of disagreements with coaching decisions. Thibodeau knows that his boss is entitled to opinions, but believes his outward commitment to a united front deserves to be reciprocated.

The unexpected ouster of the respected and well-liked Adams was a shot by Forman off Thibodeau’s bow, causing some insiders to believe it is highly unlikely that the coach will see the end of his three-year contract extension.

Trying times again in Deerfield, and all-too-familiar feelings for a Chicago franchise. Jerry Reinsdorf must be used to this, by now, with a source explaining that the Forman/Thibodeau situation is less like Krause and Jackson, and “more like Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen, but without Twitter.”

Those other cases of famous discord correlated with championships, however. This one may not.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:33 am 
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Oh geeze, Dan BernSTINE trying to drum up some GIGANTIC infighting within the Bulls organization and Thibs... :roll:

Gimmie a break.

Oh well, at least he has his show programming for the day...he can sit back and pretend to know people and tell us he has "made some calls" and yap about how earth shaking this all is.


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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:42 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Oh geeze, Dan BernSTINE trying to drum up some GIGANTIC infighting within the Bulls organization and Thibs... :roll:

Gimmie a break.

Oh well, at least he has his show programming for the day...he can sit back and pretend to know people and tell us he has "made some calls" and yap about how earth shaking this all is.


the GM just fired an assistant coach who is a close friend to the HC.... there is nothing to drum up, it's already obvious there is friction between gar and thibs

IMO, forman is right, the minutes of key players during the regular season need to be better limited... the regular season doesnt mean anything. The team needs to be fresh for the playoffs... which they clearly have not been.


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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:43 am 
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WHY DON'T YOU STROKE BERNSTINE OFF, SOME MORE, BILLY?!?!?!?!


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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:44 am 
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Mac wrote:
The treat was [radio hosts] speculating (for a good long time) on what went wrong in the Tom Thibodeau-Ron Adams relationship. Does this not encapsulate the basement to which sportsradio has descended? Who fucking cares.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:59 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
WHY DON'T YOU STROKE BERNSTINE OFF, SOME MORE, BILLY?!?!?!?!



Come on, man. Credit where credit is due. That's an interesting article unless you have ZERO interest in the Bulls.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:00 am 
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It really is. Just a reminder that he can actually be quite fantastic at this job when he's not creating strawmen.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:02 am 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
It really is. Just a reminder that he can actually be quite fantastic at this job when he's not creating strawmen.
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


Come on, man. Credit where credit is due. That's an interesting article unless you have ZERO interest in the Bulls.


I know, I was just giving BernSTINEpootons some shit.


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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:06 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Come on, man. Credit where credit is due. That's an interesting article unless you have ZERO interest in the Bulls.

The sad part is this should have been written by the beat guys 6 months ago. Geez our newspaper guys are fucking jokes.


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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:07 am 
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I love when we finally get a report about how "its been an open secret for months...." but nobody's bothered to tell the readers/listeners.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:08 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
WHY DON'T YOU STROKE BERNSTINE OFF, SOME MORE, BILLY?!?!?!?!


i'd rather bang his wife


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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:09 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
I love when we finally get a report about how "its been an open secret for months...." but nobody's bothered to tell the readers/listeners.


maybe if Gar had tried to choke thibs we'd have learned about this sooner


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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:11 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
I love when we finally get a report about how "its been an open secret for months...." but nobody's bothered to tell the readers/listeners.

Exactly. Can't blame DB as he's just a radio host. Schuster and the other beat guys are at the Berto everyday. Chumps.


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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:12 am 
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Ha, I know.

KC had no clue about any of this? Then he should be fucking fired for failing to do his job. If he knew about it and sat on it, which he has a history of doing, he should be fired for not doing his job. This guy is a total joke.

He also had no clue about Big Mike Dunleavy coming to the Bulls, no clue about the Bulls even looking in his direction. It's free agent/trade season in the NBA and this fucker doesn't know shit? WTF?


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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:20 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Ha, I know.

KC had no clue about any of this? Then he should be fucking fired for failing to do his job. If he knew about it and sat on it, which he has a history of doing, he should be fired for not doing his job. This guy is a total joke.

He also had no clue about Big Mike Dunleavy coming to the Bulls, no clue about the Bulls even looking in his direction. It's free agent/trade season in the NBA and this fucker doesn't know shit? WTF?



Maybe he's saving all the juicy stuff for his book.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:26 am 
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n/m not worth it.


Last edited by Meatballer on Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:46 am 
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Thibs will be fired in the next 18 months. Unless by some miracle he starts limiting minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:47 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Thibs will be fired in the next 18 months. Unless by some miracle he starts limiting minutes.


Makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Quote:

Forman is frustrated by what now is a pattern – piling up victories to grab a high Eastern Conference seed, only to send a tired, depleted team out to fight for what really matters.


I'm not really buying this. Every playoff team is tired by the end of the season. The Spurs might manage this than everyone else, but even they had to suffer through nagging injuries. The Bulls lost in 2011 because Riley's team was better than Forman's team, and they lost in 2012 because Rose went down. When has the "tired, depleted team in the playoffs" narrative ever been true? In 2011 and 2013, this team went as far as they could go.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:38 pm 
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They're off to a decent start. Being goofy, having fun with Hawk. Why do I think this won't last?

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:49 pm 
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yeah sounds like a fun goofy show today.

So Samardzija has some jimmypasta in him :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Come on, man. Credit where credit is due. That's an interesting article unless you have ZERO interest in the Bulls.

The sad part is this should have been written by the beat guys 6 months ago. Geez our newspaper guys are fucking jokes.

My new name for KC Johnson is ZZ Johnson, because he's the Zaidman of the Bulls.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:50 pm 
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oh boy, here we go with the meatballs.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:52 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Quote:

Forman is frustrated by what now is a pattern – piling up victories to grab a high Eastern Conference seed, only to send a tired, depleted team out to fight for what really matters.


I'm not really buying this. Every playoff team is tired by the end of the season. The Spurs might manage this than everyone else, but even they had to suffer through nagging injuries. The Bulls lost in 2011 because Riley's team was better than Forman's team, and they lost in 2012 because Rose went down. When has the "tired, depleted team in the playoffs" narrative ever been true? In 2011 and 2013, this team went as far as they could go.



Excellent point! Factor in some questionable game 6 substitutions by Popovich, and one could argue that the Heat were too tired. But you're spot on in citing the factual history of the Bulls under Forman.

I listened to transition and what struck me was how quiet was Terry "I used to cover the NBA" Boers. Even when prompted to talk he didn't have too much to say, unless he knows there's a voicemail message awaiting an access code to confirm that he knew everything all along.

What I don't understand is when has their been a power struggle where making the star player become disgruntled has produced a championship? Who is the GM that proved this as a way to be successful? If the team's power nucleus is the head coach/assistant coach/star player then a smart GM would get out of the way so long as they win. Otherwise, this is a recipe for disaster, another of several that have plagued Reinsdorf owned teams.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:54 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:54 pm 
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No Clever Moniker wrote:
What I don't understand is when has their been a power struggle where making the star player become disgruntled has produced a championship? Who is the GM that proved this as a way to be successful? If the team's power nucleus is the head coach/assistant coach/star player then a smart GM would get out of the way so long as they win. Otherwise, this is a recipe for disaster, another of several that have plagued Reinsdorf owned teams.


I concur. Disaster is on the horizon.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:59 pm 
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They are spot on about I don't know how to spell his name though.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:05 pm 
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I guess Bernstine is trolling Yellon's blog, and taking that as speaking for Cub fandom.

BCB is the farthest thing that I can think of from Cub fandom now, it may represent what Cub fandom once was. Problem for Bernsie is, things have changed.

They won't mention Yellon on the air, but it's clear they're going to his blog to find their straw Cub fans to burn. People give Murphy shit, but at least Murphy is (if I have to guess through his friendship with Bill James) smart enough to see the current plan with Theo and Jed is a hell of a lot smarter than what the Cubs were doing before.

I sense Dan wants the Cubs to revert to the old plan so he can find more show material. The problem is when their stupid stereotypes aren't true.


Last edited by Meatballer on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Dallas Winston wrote:
They are spot on about I don't know how to spell his name though.


Yeah, but we don't need to spend more than five minutes talking about it.

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 Post subject: Re: 7/3 Dan doin' work
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:08 pm 
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What is Samardzija supposed to say?

His comments were perfectly reasonable

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