What the fuck kind of claptrap is that? If a guy pitched "well enough to win", he would have won.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

And maybe you shouldn't trust Leyland more than me. At least I don't have a losing record as a big league manager.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Danks got 1 run yesterday. So he had to go out there and throw a shutout.
Sale got ZERO runs on Saturday. What the fuck kind of claptrap is that? Please explain to me how a starting pitcher is supposed to get the W when his offense scores ZERO runs.

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If Danks is so great, why is it the guys who are facing him can allow just one run and he can't? And don't tell me about his offense. Tampa Bay is horseshit too. This isn't an absurd comparison of the '27 Yankees and the '11 Mariners. Sale got zero runs because Matt Moore is a good pitcher. Why are you ignoring that? David Price is a good pitcher. The two Sox guys got beat by two better Tampa guys.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I never said Tampa was throwing bums out on the mound against the Sox. I want you to explain how Chris Sale is supposed to get a win when the Sox as a team score 0 runs.


Among AL starting pitchers who have thrown 60 innings or more, Chris Sale is dead last in run support, getting an average of 2.56 runs per start.

But he sucks! He is 5-8! What a bum! "Losing Pitcher" Chris Sale is 5-8 with his 2.78 ERA, his 0.96 WHIP, his 123/25 K:BB ratio, and his 4.5 WAR.

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So, if Jeremy Hellickson and Jamey Wright pitched instead of Moore and Price and Danks and Sale put up the exact same performance but Hellickson and Wright got shelled, then Danks and Sales exact same performance is better?

Obviously. Pitchers are human beings. It would be a lot easier if we could just say, Danks is a 4.10 and Price is a 3.70, so Price wins. We wouldn't have to play the games at all. These guys aren't ignorant to what is going on within the games. That's why Danks loses 7-5 or 2-1. It isn't just coincidence that he often pitches "bad" when the other guy does.

If the pitchers were sealed in a bubble between innings and not allowed to know the scores of the games, I think you'd be surprised at how different their results are. It's like running against time or running with an opponent in the next lane. Two different things.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He can't get a win, but he doesn't have to get a loss, does he? if he's so great, why isn't he the guy preventing run support?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Danks has had like three sub .500 years. his rookie year and when he was injured. The other 3 years he was above .500.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Its pretty hard for any pitcher- Sale, Danks, Vazquez, Cy Young, Babe Ruth- to get anything other than an L when they get zero run support.

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It's not so hard for the guys facing John Danks though. Just keep chucking and he'll give one up first.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Why are you so quick to bash Danks, yet defend the under .500 White Sox career of Gavin Floyd?

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Hey, I'm pulling for John Danks. I hope he has a great career with the Sox and finishes well above .500. I just don't think he will.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

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I wouldn't say I defend Floyd's career. These are two different guys. Here's how I see them. Danks is going to be a consistent pitcher. He was reasonably polished from the day he hit the big leagues. You need guys like that. Javy Vazquez is another guy like that and I know you hate him. But they are useful pitchers.

But Danks at his best is never going to be as good as Floyd at his best. Floyd has lockdown stuff that can make batters look ridiculous. Of course he's been inconsistent with his location and thus, his results. Depending on the salaries, I think Floyd is the better risk. There's higher potential reward. Danks is probably a safer bet. He's left-handed and he usually doesn't get killed. But I don't see him as having a lot of guts. He just manages to allow a little more than his team scores. Now, if he catches good match-ups against guys like himself, maybe he can be better. His team does have a lousy offense this season. I don't totally discount that. Bottom line, I think Floyd is capable of leading a staff in a given year. It's not something I would count on Danks to do.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
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Except that isn't true. He has a .580 winning percentage. About 100 points better than Danks.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He's 5-8 this season. Don't go with career stats. Go with whats happening right now. If you are going to be consistent, you should start saying "losing pitcher" Chris Sale.

If you don't refer to him that way, I mean I really don't care if you want to be a hypocrite then.

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0.385 this year though


Horrible

Okay, now you're getting off your "scientific" horse and using tiny samples to beat me over the head. Sale doesn't really have enough of a body of work to judge him by, period. Danks is getting there. McDowell and DeLeon and Horlen and Hunter certainly do.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Sale isn't having a good year, but he obviously isn't a losing pitcher, unless you have some way to twist .580.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Elmhurst Joe Orr.

Sale is an All Star, deservedly so.

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Scientific horse


You're crazy, Jorr


Why are you projecting Rongey and Bernstein's idiocy on me?

I have never said W-L is meaningless or anything close to it

5-8 isn't good. You want it to be. It isn't. I don't need any All-Stars with losing records. Athletic feats are only relevant to the competition. No wonder you like golf. It's you vs. a course. Baseball isn't like that. It's you vs. an opponent.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Then don't troll me with Sale's .385 percentage from this season. Now, now, now, you were trolling me.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Wrong again. Golf can be and often times is you vs. an opponent.

I never said 5-8 was good. I said that Sale is deserving of being an All Star when you look at all of his numbers so far this season.

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Live by the W-L%, die by the W-L %

The sample has to be large enough, of course. As I said, Sale's complete body of work is even too small right now. But he doesn't strike me as a losing-type pitcher. In fact, I'd bet he finishes this season at .500 or better.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

True. That's why you might shoot a lower score than Tiger Woods on a particular day over a particular course but you damn sure aren't going to do it playing in the same foursome as he is with some money on the line.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Are you trying to tell me that Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball unless its being thrown by "losing pitcher" John Danks?

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Ok, Harris, let's not start a holy war here.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way