So if he hit the market, do you think he wouldn't have much interest, since he isn't pitching 'well enough?'

Thanks for the gesture, sir. Have a few at the game for me.

Not sure if you noticed, but they launched Wigginton and Boggs yesterday. The purging of the roster has begun... all Hail Mozeliak

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

He would have a ton of interest because he's young and has a lot of talent. He's a good pitcher, I never said he wasnt.

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Ok, glad we agree on that. It's what is most important.

I did. Heard them say it during the first inning. I'm sure my dad is thrilled. He hates Boggs.

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-- source

If it were up to me this thread would have been locked immediately after this post.

Since it wasn't, I'll add a few more things. I see W/L as a result and the other numbers as events that occurred on the way to said result. The result is always more important. I've said countless times that Chris Sale should not be the poster boy for this argument. The sample is too damn small, but anyone who wants to suggest that 5-8 is good is just crazy and anyone who wants to say that it was beyond the pitcher's control is wrong.

I see we've gotten into the ridiculous with guys pointing out that a pitcher could throw a perfect game every time and still not get a win. We should probably find that guy before we discuss him, but I'll point out he also wouldn't have a loss.

A pitcher doesn't have to allow a run, you know. You act as if such an expectation is unreasonable, all the while ignoring the fact that there is another pitcher in the game- who most of the time isn't supposed to be as good- who as done exactly that.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

At least you think we're all sane, because not a single person in this thread has said that 5-8 was good.

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You've said it a bunch of times. "Sale is having a great year." He isn't. 5-8 defines his year so far. Everything else is ancillary. It may predict a bright future. Great! I'm happy for Sox fans and fantasy owners who drafted him.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I just clicked on this thread and discovered my good name being besmirched.
I'll tell you what,Stoney: I'll take 4 SP with low ERA's and WHIPS anytime,anyday. W/L records be damned.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

There you go again making up your own quotes. I never said Sale had a good record, and I never said 5-8 was good.

I said that Sale is having a great year so far. This is a fact, and you cannot dispute it.

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You're confusing me with your illogic.

Sale is 5-8 this year.
5-8 is not good.
Therefore Sale is not good this year.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Back in 1968,Ferguson Jenkins lost 5 (Cubs lost 6-one NoDecision) games by the score of 1-0.

http://legendsrevealed.com/sports/2009/ ... e-support/

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

The concept that a team didn't hit behind a pitcher willfully ignores the fact that there was another pitcher in the game who had something to do with those guys not hitting. And in most cases he isn't supposed to be as good as Chris Sale.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That was a pretty good hitting team. They were near the leaders in runs scored. I guess a good pitcher shut them down and most times his job was tougher than Fergie's, right?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'm talking about if you were going to draft a team. I'm going with a Chris Sale type pitcher not a guy who went 12-3 with a 6.02 ERA.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Me too. And there aren't many guys who went 12-3 with a 6.02, if any. Maybe some guy in the 30s. Check out Wes Ferrell or something.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That other pitcher is part of a separate realm of the game that has no impact whatsoever on the opposing pitcher and his performance. The talent of that pitcher also should not factor into our evaluation of the pitcher of focus. These are separate processes that need to be kept independent of one another in order to generate precise statistics of each pitcher's performance.

The fate of Chris Sale in any given game depends on his ability to limit team x to a run total that his offense is able to outscore. The question isn't can Sale outpitch the opposing pitcher, it's can Sale's offense produce at least one more run than Sale gives up. If the offense cannot do so, it still does not follow that the opposing pitcher bested Sale. In order for that to be true, Sale and the opposing pitcher would have to face the same lineup in similar conditions, times, etc.

It's like pitchers are playing in two different games because they are in fact playing two different opponents with disparate talent levels.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

It can be meaningless if you over look everything else. When a guy gives up more than 2 runs in 4 of 17 starts and has a 2.45 ERA and a 1.06 WHIP, but has a losing record because his team scored less than 2 runs in 12 games he's pitched, I am not going to say a guy thay has twice as many wins and half the losses, but has an ERA 1.5 runs higher and has give up more than 2 runs in half of his 18 starts is better. That is when common sense should tell anyone the pitcher isn't the problem and it should say the guy with the 4ERA isn't better.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

This thread's still alive?

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So would you say losses is a "better" stat than wins? As you said, you can't lose a shutout, but you can sure win while having a shitty outing.

Winning percentage. Looking at wins in a single season is fine because you can get a reasonably good idea of what the guy's percentage is. I think Wilbur Wood led the league in wins and losses one year, but that's obviously an oddity. But for a career you have to know the wins and the losses. Jamie Moyer has a lot of wins but he was just slightly above ordinary for a long time in accumulating them. Still, if you tell me he won 21 games in 2003, I know he had a good year. If you tell me Dave Foutz had 21 wins in the 1886, I'm not really sure.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

This is a key area where we disagree. Pitchers pitch the games they're in. It's not a simulation. I would compare it to taking a scratch club golfer and having him play a course. He might shoot 70. Then you have a top tour pro shoot that same course. Maybe he shoots 75. But if the two guys walk together, the tour guy is going to shoot the lower score the vast majority of the time. That's why he's on the tour and the other guy is a club pro. The same thing could be said for runners. It's vastly different running against a clock than running against a guy in the next lane.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

As a fan of JORR I can say this: you are making shit up as you go. We all know you walked uphill 5 miles to school and bla, bla, bla. We now have buses and fuel-efficient cars, just like we have statistics now that are better than W/L. This is fact. It's similar to how the printing press revolutionized the world at one time but is now obsolete. W/L was great fifty years ago. This is no longer the case.

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Or how baseball used to be great but is now obsolete.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This is complete speculation, and it is likely very wrong.

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The only variable within that game they are both pitching is the lineups. All other conditions are the same. Including the plate umpire who is critical. And in the majority of cases the lineups are separated in ability by only a fraction of a run per game, something that only exists theoretically.

When looking at ERAs, each one was developed under a plethora of vastly differing conditions while facing very different combinations of hitters.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

THANK YOU! It's about fuckin' time we all recognized this.

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If it's likely wrong, why the fuck wasn't Hal Miller Tiger Woods? Do you think he liked kissing the asses of a bunch of Catholic douchebags from Sauganash?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Ridiculous. I know more about modern statistical analysis in baseball than most everyone who posts in the forum.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's why fans don't want to watch it on television. It's only compelling when you are literally forced to either watch the game or the fat guy eating a chili dog behind you.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!