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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:31 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Something needs to be done to try and get through to the people living in the community that being smart, going to school, getting educated is the best and easiest way out .


I dont know that it is the easiest. I think grabbing a gun a joining a gang has to be easier than working hard and getting good grades and going on to college.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:34 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
That's a great point. We are still very segregated as a society.


What about the whole cycle of a young minority thinking he has no shot and turning to crime or just not trying?

Do you give them truth or pep talks?


Great education and free after school mentoring programs will solve most of this. They have to believe it is possible. Having positive and encouraging people around is one thing many don't have. That is how the streets get ahold to them. That and the fact that most are "dumb" and was given a free pass in grade school. They believe they have nothing else to fall back on. Ask a thug to read something from a book and in a second they lose that "swagg".

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Something needs to be done to try and get through to the people living in the community that being smart, going to school, getting educated is the best and easiest way out .


I dont know that it is the easiest. I think grabbing a gun a joining a gang has to be easier than working hard and getting good grades and going on to college.

That's what I'm saying though Hank. How do you get the point across that grabbing the gun and banging is by far the worse choice? At that point it's probably too late but its the young kids that need to understand it. How do you not lose another generation to the streets?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:41 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Something needs to be done to try and get through to the people living in the community that being smart, going to school, getting educated is the best and easiest way out .


I dont know that it is the easiest. I think grabbing a gun a joining a gang has to be easier than working hard and getting good grades and going on to college.

That's what I'm saying though Hank. How do you get the point across that grabbing the gun and banging is by far the worse choice? At that point it's probably too late but its the young kids that need to understand it. How do you not lose another generation to the streets?

Well Nas is right.

To a kid, its like "Why is that better?"

If the role models live a miserable life, the kid is not going to want to follow their advice.

You need positive successful (Not money, just living well) role models


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:43 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Something needs to be done to try and get through to the people living in the community that being smart, going to school, getting educated is the best and easiest way out . It doesn't appear as if that message gets through. Seems that that kind for thinking is derided for some reason. It HAS to start at home and be reinforced everyday . Again the family structure doesn't seem to be in place to support and reinforce it. Am I seeing that wrongly ? I don't know how to change that mentality and get that message out.


The family structure in most communities have been dead for decades. That's why I believe you have to go around them. Most parents want their kids to do well. They're just too prideful to admit they don't have the intelligence or knowhow to help them. Offering free after school programs (helps keep them off streets) with mentors will solve that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:47 pm 
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Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
That's a great point. We are still very segregated as a society.


What about the whole cycle of a young minority thinking he has no shot and turning to crime or just not trying?

Do you give them truth or pep talks?


Great education and free after school mentoring programs will solve most of this. They have to believe it is possible. Having positive and encouraging people around is one thing many don't have. That is how the streets get ahold to them. That and the fact that most are "dumb" and was given a free pass in grade school. They believe they have nothing else to fall back on. Ask a thug to read something from a book and in a second they lose that "swagg".



My comment will not fit/apply to everything so take it for what it is worth. If after school, mentors, other help are what are needed then why do people who seemingly do try to help or be role models get shot down as bad or worse Uncle Toms? I would think people that shoot straight like Bill Cosby should be welcomed more the Jesse or Big Al. Or even a differing side of the political spectrum like Clarence Thomas or Allen West? Seems to me the buisness of helping black youth lies to much with other intentioned activists, politicians and teachers unions and such.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:03 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
That's a great point. We are still very segregated as a society.


What about the whole cycle of a young minority thinking he has no shot and turning to crime or just not trying?

Do you give them truth or pep talks?


Great education and free after school mentoring programs will solve most of this. They have to believe it is possible. Having positive and encouraging people around is one thing many don't have. That is how the streets get ahold to them. That and the fact that most are "dumb" and was given a free pass in grade school. They believe they have nothing else to fall back on. Ask a thug to read something from a book and in a second they lose that "swagg".



My comment will not fit/apply to everything so take it for what it is worth. If after school, mentors, other help are what are needed then why do people who seemingly do try to help or be role models get shot down as bad or worse Uncle Toms? I would think people that shoot straight like Bill Cosby should be welcomed more the Jesse or Big Al. Or even a differing side of the political spectrum like Clarence Thomas or Allen West? Seems to me the buisness of helping black youth lies to much with other intentioned activists, politicians and teachers unions and such.


Very few people of color my age or younger like Jesse or Al or any of the hustling preachers. As far as someone like Bill Cosby and others go it is not that what they are saying is wrong it's that they are saying it and are absent. That gives the appearance that they are talking down to the community. Besides screaming these things at a bunch of 18 year olds won't really help. The job of mentoring and getting them to understand these things need to happen at an earlier age instead of when they already think they know it all.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
That's a great point. We are still very segregated as a society.


What about the whole cycle of a young minority thinking he has no shot and turning to crime or just not trying?

Do you give them truth or pep talks?


Great education and free after school mentoring programs will solve most of this. They have to believe it is possible. Having positive and encouraging people around is one thing many don't have. That is how the streets get ahold to them. That and the fact that most are "dumb" and was given a free pass in grade school. They believe they have nothing else to fall back on. Ask a thug to read something from a book and in a second they lose that "swagg".



My comment will not fit/apply to everything so take it for what it is worth. If after school, mentors, other help are what are needed then why do people who seemingly do try to help or be role models get shot down as bad or worse Uncle Toms? I would think people that shoot straight like Bill Cosby should be welcomed more the Jesse or Big Al. Or even a differing side of the political spectrum like Clarence Thomas or Allen West? Seems to me the buisness of helping black youth lies to much with other intentioned activists, politicians and teachers unions and such.


Very few people of color my age or younger like Jesse or Al or any of the hustling preachers. As far as someone like Bill Cosby and others go it is not that what they are saying is wrong it's that they are saying it and are absent. That gives the appearance that they are talking down to the community. Besides screaming these things at a bunch of 18 year olds won't really help. The job of mentoring and getting them to understand these things need to happen at an earlier age instead of when they already think they know it all.


Cool thanks for helping me see that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Shame on the motherfuckers in charge who haven't made those changes happen yet and are only concerned with serving their own agenda and expanding their power base. If there are people who truly can effect change and aren't then that's one of the most fucked things I've ever heard of.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Kids all need Fathers & Mothers who they can look up to as role models. There aren't any Fathers to be found, & many Mothers aren't role models. Its a real mess with no easy answer.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:04 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
Kids all need Fathers & Mothers who they can look up to as role models. There aren't any Fathers to be found, & many Mothers aren't role models. Its a real mess with no easy answer.


There are plenty of single-parent households (whichever parent) that raise exceptional children, and troubled kids can emerge from dual-parent households just as much as they can emerge from single-parent households.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:57 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Kids all need Fathers & Mothers who they can look up to as role models. There aren't any Fathers to be found, & many Mothers aren't role models. Its a real mess with no easy answer.


There are plenty of single-parent households (whichever parent) that raise exceptional children, and troubled kids can emerge from dual-parent households just as much as they can emerge from single-parent households.


Current POTUS is a perfect example of a single parent wit ha kid that tuned out okay.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:10 pm 
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Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
What's the solution?


Give the youth hope and a great education. Free after school programs with big brothers and sisters. Exposing them to different ethnic groups and integrating schools and neighborhoods.



That is one of the biggest issues. We're so segregated from one another that we rarely get the chance to get to know one another. We hold onto whatever prejudices we have and only look for things to validate them. Those prejudices is one of the primary reasons why it is so easy for people to ignore problems that don't effect their communities.


How are going to give them hope and a great education? One of the things needed to do that is parental involvement,look at your successful schools and you will see places where the parents are active and engaged in their kids education.
Free after-school programs ,like what? Schools already have programs like that. Big brothers and sisters,from where? You mean volunteers? Or are you talking about white people getting involved in these neighborhoods,that seems to me like what you are implying. Why should we, every time white people get involved or try to help we are told we do not understand the culture or situation. I seem to recall a few weeks ago when it was brought up to arrest an entire gang a black congressman said it was a typical "whiteboy" response.

We tried to integrate the schools ,still goes on. We bus kids around. If you look at the schools that are involved in the busing program the only thing that happens is the non minority school suffers academically.
Lets face it , the situation in the black community is terrible , needs to be fixed but it will not until African Americans take responsibility for themselves and lay down the crutch of slavery and discrimination.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Yeah!

What about that Nas?!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:36 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Yeah!

What about that Nas?!


:thumright: :thumright: I have no response.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:38 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:58 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
What's the solution?


I am certainly no expert, and I know many people will disagree with this opinion, but legalizing drugs and then funneling some of that profit into drug treatment among many other things like education, should begin a trend of making drug dealing less of an option.

I would also like to see an increase in after school and summer league sporting activities. The percentage of AA Major League ballplayers for example has dwindled to next to nothing and that is due to a lack of inner city baseball programs, baseball fields, etc.

Also begin inner city educational programs in fields where there are jobs: health services, computers, etc. Also something needs to be done to mandate that people receiving aide from the government do something in return to serve the community, even if it's only a few hours per month. Examples would be cleaning trash from the neighborhoods, volunteering to do work in the various educational endeavors established, etc.

As to what is the solution for making people more accountable to themselves? That answer has to start with education.


Last edited by cpguy on Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:13 pm 
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Nas wrote:

Give the youth hope and a great education. Free after school programs with big brothers and sisters. Exposing them to different ethnic groups and integrating schools and neighborhoods.

I worked in an office when I was 21 and I was the only black guy (this has pretty much been true everywhere I've worked as an adult) out of about 40 people. We had a shirt and tie dress code with a casual Friday that basically meant you could wear whatever you wanted. I got along with everyone there and as far as I could tell no one had an issue with me. We even hung out after work. They considered me to be one of "the good ones". I blended in on casual Friday's until my production was good enough where I didn't fear losing my job. At that point I decided to make a political statement and come to work dressed in "urban" gear (I wore a belt). The looks I got told me what I already knew. I was one of the good ones because of the way I dressed and the fact they got to know me. If they didn't know me and saw me dressed that way they would have had a different opinion. I dressed the same way until I left.

That is one of the biggest issues. We're so segregated from one another that we rarely get the chance to get to know one another. We hold onto whatever prejudices we have and only look for things to validate them. Those prejudices is one of the primary reasons why it is so easy for people to ignore problems that don't effect their communities.


That segregation exists within the white community. It's not necessarily conscious or learned either. It's a human reaction to fear, doubt, or dislike what is perceived as different. It's natural. It has nothing to do with you being "a good one" and more to do with you being "like or the same as" the people you worked with. By your appearance (which is the most impactful) they'd deduce you might have similiar backgrounds, have similiar interests, have similiar values, etc. It happened in a store with my son earlier this year and a few weeks ago with a family member.

While I'm against violence and livelihood discrimination, I do support people's personal choices and their level of comfort. What you are viewing as racism, I am viewing as culture/issues that people choose not to support. I don't know how you could ask some people to compromise there.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:15 pm 
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cpguy wrote:
I would also like to see an increase in after school and summer league sporting activities. The percentage of AA Major League ballplayers for example has dwindled to next to nothing and that is due to a lack of inner city baseball programs, baseball fields, etc.


Kids in general don't play a lot of baseball anymore. World is different, family scheduling is different, social activities are different.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:32 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Nas wrote:

Give the youth hope and a great education. Free after school programs with big brothers and sisters. Exposing them to different ethnic groups and integrating schools and neighborhoods.

I worked in an office when I was 21 and I was the only black guy (this has pretty much been true everywhere I've worked as an adult) out of about 40 people. We had a shirt and tie dress code with a casual Friday that basically meant you could wear whatever you wanted. I got along with everyone there and as far as I could tell no one had an issue with me. We even hung out after work. They considered me to be one of "the good ones". I blended in on casual Friday's until my production was good enough where I didn't fear losing my job. At that point I decided to make a political statement and come to work dressed in "urban" gear (I wore a belt). The looks I got told me what I already knew. I was one of the good ones because of the way I dressed and the fact they got to know me. If they didn't know me and saw me dressed that way they would have had a different opinion. I dressed the same way until I left.

That is one of the biggest issues. We're so segregated from one another that we rarely get the chance to get to know one another. We hold onto whatever prejudices we have and only look for things to validate them. Those prejudices is one of the primary reasons why it is so easy for people to ignore problems that don't effect their communities.


That segregation exists within the white community. It's not necessarily conscious or learned either. It's a human reaction to fear, doubt, or dislike what is perceived as different. It's natural. It has nothing to do with you being "a good one" and more to do with you being "like or the same as" the people you worked with. By your appearance (which is the most impactful) they'd deduce you might have similiar backgrounds, have similiar interests, have similiar values, etc. It happened in a store with my son earlier this year and a few weeks ago with a family member.

While I'm against violence and livelihood discrimination, I do support people's personal choices and their level of comfort. What you are viewing as racism, I am viewing as culture/issues that people choose not to support. I don't know how you could ask some people to compromise there.


I never said any of it was racism. I was clear in saying there are prejudices on all sides because we aren't comfortable in taking the time to get to know one another. If we did it is my belief that we would be comfortable living next to one another. Ultimately you don't feel like a fish out of water when you are familiar and comfortable with different groups of people.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:41 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I never said any of it was racism. I was clear in saying there are prejudices on all sides because we aren't comfortable in taking the time to get to know one another. If we did it is my belief that we would be comfortable living next to one another. Ultimately you don't feel like a fish out of water when you are familiar and comfortable with different groups of people.



K, my mistake. I think you are wrong though. It's not a matter of getting to know others, it's cultural and comfort levels.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:48 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Kids all need Fathers & Mothers who they can look up to as role models. There aren't any Fathers to be found, & many Mothers aren't role models. Its a real mess with no easy answer.


There are plenty of single-parent households (whichever parent) that raise exceptional children, and troubled kids can emerge from dual-parent households just as much as they can emerge from single-parent households.


Certainly, but its one thing to grow up with one parent in Naperville, Wheaton, St. Charles, etc... its another thing to grow up in the hood without a Father. Get my drift?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:04 am 
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Scorehead wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Kids all need Fathers & Mothers who they can look up to as role models. There aren't any Fathers to be found, & many Mothers aren't role models. Its a real mess with no easy answer.


There are plenty of single-parent households (whichever parent) that raise exceptional children, and troubled kids can emerge from dual-parent households just as much as they can emerge from single-parent households.


Certainly, but its one thing to grow up with one parent in Naperville, Wheaton, St. Charles, etc... its another thing to grow up in the hood without a Father. Get my drift?


Yes, because in Naperville, Wheaton or St Charles, chances are the single parent is white, works and graduated from high school and probably college. That parent is much more likely to be a good role model, rather than a drug/alcohol abuser that doesn't work and can't be depended upon.....someone that never should have had kids in the first place.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:15 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Yes, because in Naperville, Wheaton or St Charles, chances are the single parent is white, works and graduated from high school and probably college. That parent is much more likely to be a good role model, rather than a drug/alcohol abuser that doesn't work and can't be depended upon.....someone that never should have had kids in the first place.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:18 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
Nas wrote:
I never said any of it was racism. I was clear in saying there are prejudices on all sides because we aren't comfortable in taking the time to get to know one another. If we did it is my belief that we would be comfortable living next to one another. Ultimately you don't feel like a fish out of water when you are familiar and comfortable with different groups of people.



K, my mistake. I think you are wrong though. It's not a matter of getting to know others, it's cultural and comfort levels.


But that's just honestly admitting the entire point of a suburb.

I'm not going to tell you some stupid shit like "I don't have a racist bone in my body" or "some of my best friends are black". The conditions we are born into in the United States assure that a white person is racist, whether they know it or not, whether they believe it or not. I'm proud to live in Rogers Park, a place a lot of people consider a hellhole. We hate each other in the Persian Gulf. We hate each other on the West Bank. We're scared of the blacks in Englewood and scared of the whites in Sanford, Florida. But we all get along on Devon Avenue.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:31 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
Nas wrote:
I never said any of it was racism. I was clear in saying there are prejudices on all sides because we aren't comfortable in taking the time to get to know one another. If we did it is my belief that we would be comfortable living next to one another. Ultimately you don't feel like a fish out of water when you are familiar and comfortable with different groups of people.



K, my mistake. I think you are wrong though. It's not a matter of getting to know others, it's cultural and comfort levels.


I'm having a hard time understanding this? What are the cultural differences that are too difficult to overcome? What does comfort mean? Keep in mind I am not suggesting we force adults to do anything. I am saying that exposing kids to people who don't look like them at a young age is helpful.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:02 am 
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Nas wrote:
I am saying that exposing kids to people who don't look like them at a young age is helpful.


This is somewhat true but kids dont really give a shit in the grand scheme of things. When my son goes to the park he talks to any little kid there, black/white/asian/hispanic. He could care less as long as they will play with him. There isnt a problem until you get a jagoff parent saying stuff or influencing their thoughts.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:52 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Nas wrote:
I am saying that exposing kids to people who don't look like them at a young age is helpful.


This is somewhat true but kids dont really give a shit in the grand scheme of things. When my son goes to the park he talks to any little kid there, black/white/asian/hispanic. He could care less as long as they will play with him. There isnt a problem until you get a jagoff parent saying stuff or influencing their thoughts.


But not just a parent. It's the environment as a whole. And it's difficult to hide from that in the United States.

My parents got divorced when I was ten years old. At the time it was horrible. We lived in Sauganash Park. Everyone I knew was "just like me"- white, Catholic, two parents who were still married to each other, disliked blacks and J-ews, or at least didn't want them around. The deed to our house has a restrictive covenant forbidding the sale of the property to J-ews. It didn't say anything about blacks, probably because no one would have been so bold to sell to the colored or perhaps based on the assumption that none of them could afford to live there anyway. My parents' divorce scandalized the neighborhood.

That divorce was the best thing that ever happened to me as a man. My mom moved us to Evanston where I went to school with a class that was about 45% black. Most of the white kids were Jewish. For some of those years my best friend was literally black. (Big shoutout to Scott Davis. We had two kids named Scott Davis in the class. The other one was Jewish. I never really cared for him that much. :lol: ) Anyway, I quickly learned how dumb the prejudices I had acquired in Sauganash were.

When I went to high school at Gordon it was like traveling to my past. The black guys I went to high school with were viewed by the white students, the teachers, the preists, brothers, and coaches the way bernstein views black people- as objects who existed only to win football and basketball games.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:17 am 
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My kids go to a catholic grade school about 2 blocks from the Chicago city limits. Lots of diversity. I would guess its about 20% black, 25% Latino, the rest White. Probably 20% non-catholic. my kids have no idea what racism is, but I'm sure they will learn eventually.

All the kids there are great. Really. Test scores are fantastic. They don't put up with any crap. Unfortunately, anyone coming in way way below grade level would be persuaded to go to public schools where they have "special services" available. Catholic schools do it on a budget like 1/3 of what the public schools do.

Point is, this is a great environment. But you've got to have parents that are willing to sacrifice and figure out way to give your kids that opportunity.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:23 am 
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Quite a bit has been revealed here in page 3.

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