It's running rampant. Ditka was a bad coach, Butkus was a bum, Lebron>Jordan, running to first doesn't matter, castro just needs more time to mature.....

I'm sick of this whole "too cool to fly my meatball flag" trend.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Ditka wasn't a great coach. I would say he was average at best. Had a great defensive coordinator. New Orleans did more to hurt his reputation than anything.

I've never personally heard Butkus was a bum, but I don't think he would be effective in today's NFL.

The biggest problem is that you can't compare the NFL across eras. At all. It leads to nothing good.

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Is it really anti-meatball to say Lebron > Jordan? I'd say they are getting pretty damn close. The next 2-3 seasons should tell us for good who is the better player.

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I'd say LeBron has to get at least 2 more titles before you can really start saying he was better.

Ditka was a great coach who let his own success and his team's success get to his head. That and a couple injuries forever killed his chances of being considered "great" anywhere outside of Chicago. That team should have been in at least 2 more Super Bowls with at least 1 more SB victory.

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But why? He wss bigger, faster, and stronger than most guys playing his position today.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Of course. If you are a meatball Bulls fan, Jordan is the greatest there will ever be. That's the very definition of meatball.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Being a meatball is the best. All for it.

Who exactly is this thread directed towards? There isn't a very strong anti-meatball contingent on this board. I think everyone here goes off the deep end meatball-wise from time to time. I know I do when it comes to the NBA.

If this is another "I hate Dan Bernstein" thread, I agree with you (we should hate Dan Bernstein), but I think it's displaced.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

Actually what spurred it this A.M. was the Alex Rios fanboys who deny he was a lazy piece of crap and that anyone who thinks he was must be a racist of some sort. This is a continuing meme on the Sox fanboards. Note I did not partake and am not "butthurt." Just an observation.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I see.

Well, I'd try not to use the opinions of fans on any board as an indicator of the general consensus.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

I have no problem with the (alleged) marginalization of sports meatballs, both here and abroad.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Leave da broads outta it!

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Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

It seems to me that most of the guys coming at him are, too.

I feel like the game when he played was more defensive based, and now, it's a heavily favored offensive based game.

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Even Mac was ridiculing Butkus the other day, really hammering the "white running backs" theory. Sad day when Mac is mimicking Bernsy.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

The objective

Michael Keller Ditka 106-62, 1 NFL Championship, 2 additional NFC championship appearances, 6 NFC Central Division Championships, 7 playoff appearances...all in 11 years of coaching the Beloved. Three losing seasons in that time, his first, his last and 1989.

The subjective

The Bears were an absolute mess when he took over the position. I believe they had something like 1 playoff appearance in 20 years and the great Buddy Ryan had been a defensive coordinator for them during those down years. The team immediately became better when he took over. He took a 6-10 team, brought it to .500 in two years and 15-1 in four years.

Detractors would have you believe he was somehow along for the ride in those 11 SEASONS or that it was a matter of great drafting. Even the most disloyal of his players would ever make that accusation...and what did Buddy Ryan and his bloated prodigy do without Ditka? They are almost 30 years deep in underproduction.

Sure the drafting was good but you cannot explain the consistently superior production the Bears received from lower round draft picks without looking to coaching. Bortz, Hilgenberg, Dent, Fencik and Butler became pro bowlers under his coaching despite being passed by teams on draft day. Every shitty TE they acquired seem to produce. The depth along his offensive line was unmatched.

This does not even address the work he did in Dallas. He lasted NINE season with one of the greatest coaches in the history of football. That special teams in Dallas were always top notch. He, of course, also won a Super Bowl as an assistant.

The Saints years were not good, but that was a completely different situation. Ditka was given control of personnel and he was horrible at it. The Ricky Williams trade had failure written all over it from the beginning and set the franchise back for years. How many other great coaches have ended their careers in a similarly bad fashion with a second franchise...the list would be substantial.

Bottom line: Ditka would have most likely made the Hall of Fame had he never played a down of football in the league. He was a great coach and an icon for the league.

BEARRRSSSS!

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

The Jordan v. Lebron debate obviously has to be directed to "at their best" as Lebron still has time left on his career. If you are restricting it to those terms, is there a single objective metric that shows Lebron's best is better than Jordan's best? I never hear a statistical argument from people who pride themselves on a clinical analysis in just about every other debate.

Subjectively, the fuck you talking about? How can a person make an argument about Butkus in a less physically able era and then not hold Lebron to the same standard. Jordan was the best player in the best era of NBA basketball. He shouldered far more duties than Lebron does on the court on a daily basis.

This seems silly to me and I wouldn't even argue the point until someone first proposes something compelling to open the debate.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Butkus: the measurable sure seem to indicate a guy who would be a top pick to this day 6'3", 245 with a reported 4.5 40 time. The stats back it up further that he could play in today's offensively preferred game with speed being prioritized on defense. He had 22 interceptions in 8 years including five in one year. Obviously he was effective on passing downs. Further, he had 27 fumble recoveries. His 49 recovered turnovers were a record at the time. Take the name off this paragraph and his guy sounds like Lovie's wet dream as a player.

The argument that he wouldn't be great today is untenable and it sucks that guys like Terry, who saw him first hand, agree with it.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

good work in this thread, good dolphin.

ITS HOCKEY. DERES FIGHTING. GET USED TO IT.

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Good Dolphin killing it.

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Well said & 100% correct.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

That's fair. Obviously, the game is different. But it cuts both ways. Drew Brees isn't better than Johnny Unitas just because he throws for more yards. Each player is a product of his time.

Still, I think Butkus is a special player, one of those who would shine in any era. Urlacher is probably a guy that will be underrated. A guy with his size and speed who played the way he did is a special thing. Singletary is the guy that is overrated. '85 Bears forever!!!!!!!

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I dunno. Old timers like me grew up believing in the American Dream and hard work and all the crap. Bust your butt and you'll go far.

Bunch of crap I guess. But it would be nice to see players pretend to bust their ass for my enjoyment (and $$).

The youth of today (meaning anyone younger than ME) laugh at the grindy overacheiving types.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Certainly not always true. That's some romanticized bullshit. A lot of hard workers get bad breaks. There are a few on this board out of work through no fault of their own. Plenty of generationally-wealthy people who haven't had to work a day in their lives either.

That's a patently untrue stereotype. You're kinda strawman-ing it a little bit.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

I just said it was probably a bunch of crap and laughed at my own idiocy.

I'm just an old guy tilting at windmills.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

cough- dr. ken's kids-cough

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

finally, Starlin Castro: the guy doesn't need any more time for development. He is finished as far as needing improvement in skills. He is at a crossroads as a player. It is all in his head whether he chooses to be great.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Antimeatballism goes so far the otehr way it becomes its own form of meatballism

Like when Rongey says Win Loss is completely meaningless or Bernstein insinuates that effort has zero effect on any sport at the highest level

Very true. Thinking Fan's Meatballism.

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Back off, Warchild. Seriously.