The primitives are appalled by the question. The progressives are appalled by the question. It's not a partisan question. What do you think?

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So poor people should die before their time because they can't afford treatment?

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Are you asking me?

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Your the only one here...It's your move.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

I think basic health care is a right in a wealthy country such as ours, yes. What do you think, James?

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I agree. I don't know if Obama care is the answer. It might have been easier to subsidize smaller companies (and large) who could offer insurance to part time employees. Since finding a decent FT job seems like a dream to a lot of people,a lot of Americans are working two PT jobs instead. It would be nice if Medical was offered with more PT jobs.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

In a way, I wonder if the question is also sort of asking should health care be commoditized to the degree it is today. Is that what you're getting at, leash? Should health care be privatized?

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Health care should be free.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Love to see the person that said 'no' be brave and explain their answer.

I'd also love to shit gold dubloons .... I have a feeling that will happen before the former.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I didn't have any specific purpose in asking. I was reading another thread which sort of touched on the topic and just wondered what people thought.

I do think basic health care is a right in a country as wealthy as ours. However, I also wish health care was individually priced and that premiums reflected individual risk as opposed to the group medical systems we have in place now. We could still subsidize premiums for people with conditions from birth. However, smokers and alcoholics shouldn't get free rides, for example.

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Others irresponsible assholes who shouldn't get "free rides":

People who work on skyscrapers or in mines
Mountain Climbers
Skiers
Pilots
Motorcyclists
Pyrotechnicians
People who ride horses
Those who indulge in promiscuity
People who walk to work and get hit by a bus because they didn't look both ways


Maybe - just fucking maybe - it's time to take a break from trying to figure out who doesn't deserve help and instead just fucking help everyone for a while ... it ain't Fred the Wino who's actually a danger to our pocketbooks anyway.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I voted no. I don't really have a complicated, brave explanation. I just don't think it should be mandatory to pay for other citizens health care via taxes. I don't think of that as an outrageous opinion, sorry.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I also voted no. I do not believe health care is some sort of constitutional right. I would like everyone that is sick or majorly ill be taken care of in some manner. I do not the clusterfuck that Obamacare is and the way it was rammed through. Sorry I cannot offer a solution but that's my 2 cents.

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Elections have consequences.

Is healthcare just a right in wealthy countries then?

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My bad, I just saw Don Tiny's post in the other thread for the first time, just now:



I sympathize with this POV.

_________________
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Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

The key word in that statement is "basic," and you can also throw in "preventative" to the debate.

The problem is determining which treatments and therapies should be provided for those who cannot pay for them. Should an 80-yr old be entitled to hip and knee replacements? Should someone be given free birth control pills or Viagra? Should a douchebag like Bradley Manning be given a taxpayer-subsidized sex change operation?

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OK I will.

Truth is that it is not a right. Not yet.

The question is "should it be a right.?"

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Well said JB.

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Once again, go back to the money.

Why does healthcare cost so much? because of insurance. Attempts to cap damages, are always met with resistance.

The resistance sure isn't from the masses, it from the very small minority of large law firms that make a living on huge settlements for medical malpractice cases.

I know Doctors who make $300K a year and pay $75K a year in insurance premiums. I actually hate hearing them complain as they are still doing fine, but they expect to be rich like kings. Sorry, that part is not my problem. However, that is way too much in insurance premiums, but it has to be that way thanks to the Lawyers.

I know this was an original Obama agenda, but it sure dropped to the wayside, as it didnt directly appeal to the masses who supported him, but if they understood anything, they would understand this iso why they cant afford healthcare!

Yes, there needs to be limits on lawsuits. Limits of how much the attorney takes and how much the suit can be for.

I think a family needs to be provided for if malpractice is found, they need to have medical costs and care taken into account. Lump sums payments of $3 Mill, correctly invested can support anyone for life. The point being, I dont anyone should become generationally wealthy due to a lawsuit.

Yes, there should be free healthcare and you know it will be poor quality compared to that which you pay for, simple. This is where the $85 bill a month we have been spending under the Obama years should have gone.

I just resent paying huge premiums so others can pay nothing. I thought I take care of that in my income taxes that I pay, or my real estate taxes, or my daily fees, fines, processing and handling charges I pay to government daily for having the right to exist.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

doctors tell insurance companies what a procedure will cost. insurance tell customer a higher number. customers overpays on insurance plan (higher deductible then needed as well), then the insurance company pays the doctor less then what the doctor originally asked for. WIN-WIN-WIN for insurance company, fucks everyone else. this is why obama wanted public OPTION. IF YOU WANT, you can select a government insured plan that actually has public OVERSIGHT on costs. but no, everyone fuckin hated that- thats socialism! so now were left with obamaFENDFORYOURFUCKINSELFcare and everyone hates that too. and if obama did nothing, they would still be pissed.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Not talking about the cost of medical treatment for the insurance, but for the portion that the insurance companies set aside to pay lawyers. Its a staggering #$$$.

They dont even go to trial anymore. Its just a $$$ figure placed on everything. Settlement done. Lawyers takes 1/3 + expenses. Poor sap left with a few bucks after they pay their back bills and real expenses. Of course they can borrow from another friend of mine based on the validity of their lawsuit at the easy rate of 28-42%!!!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

I think it should be a right but it is unlikely to ever become one because imperfect people will demand a perfect system. Right now it is a for profit system with so many special interest involved that makes it damn near impossible to truly reform the system.

I really believe BF is trolling this subject or is blinded by his dislike of Obama. Tort reform would not dramatically reduce cost. We're talking about a 2% savings. It's nearly the equivalent of saying getting rid of food stamps will greatly reduce our deficit. Right now you are currently paying the health insurance for anyone that uses the ER fo their health care. Obamacare isn't requiring you to pay for anyone else health care. It is by far the biggest giveaway to big business in recent history. They will get 30 million new mandatory customers immediately. The ones that can't pay will be covered by the government. They're offering to continue increasing premiums for this great gift. Only someone blinded or severely misinformed could view this as a gift for the poor.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Healthcare should be a not for profit industry but that will never happen. My wife spend two nights in a hospital and cost was 30k. Thankfully our insurance covered all but a few hundred dollars but a one hour surgery and two nights should not cost that much money.

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C'mon, I expect better from a lot dumber people .... the obvious intent was to ask whether it should be a right, not is it a right; he wasn't playing dictionary or something.

To those who don't think basic healthcare isn't a right, I am very curious what you would think if someone you gave half a damn about found themselves needing help and simply couldn't get it short of miraculous intervention .... I have a feeling your tune would change damn fast. It's really easy to run your mouth from a place of plenty; not so much when your at the complete mercy of chance charity, let alone having it occur in time.



First of all, too bad .... nobody else gives a damn if you can't spend that extra day on vacation.

Second, up until this asinine paragraph, you were right on, which will chap Baby's ass for sure.

Third, would you like to direct me to the data that shows the government, at any level, budgeting money for, say, covering hospital write-offs and forgiveness of debt? For doctors who don't get that $8k for lasik, setting a broken arm, or a tit job? I'll save you the trouble ... they don't, so you thought very wrong in this case.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Following the actual teachings of Jesus in regards to the political views is something the Religious Right really has problems with.

No. It's not a right. A right indicates that regardless of circumstance, unless in an incredibly extreme set of circumstances, that a person should be granted full and complete access to it. For instance, your right to vote shouldn't be limited to only Presidential elections. Your right to free speech shouldn't only be limited to Tuesdays. I would guess that very few people think that people should be granted full and complete access to health care unless of course you feel that the government should be providing lasik and face lifts to anyone wants them.

Now, I know those examples are extreme, but it is used to illustrate the larger point here. It isn't a discussion of rights. It is a discussion as to what an industrialized society should choose to provide to every citizen. Now, I would argue that every citizen should be provided access to basic medical care. Do I think they have some right to it simply because they were born and/or moved here? No. It's just like I don't think they have a right to a house or a car or a boat. There are societies that take different approaches where citizens are given more, and there are societies where they are given significantly less. It's a fine balancing act, and when you start to call something a "right" you have to ask why people don't have the same rights to houses/cars/televisions/cell phones all of which are arguably more important to daily life than health care.

Now, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't provide healthcare in some form or another, and we do in a fairly poor manner to the very poor. Ironically, one of the largest drains on a hospital/doctor is the lack of payments FROM OUR GOVERNMENT! Our government is seeking to provide more medical care when they struggle to provide medical care now. The other problem is that when you are given something for "free" you take it for granted. You can find plenty of every day stories about how some poor patients treat a trip to the doctor. It goes anywhere from being entitled to even using the emergency room as a babysitter or hotel with room service. I am of the firm belief that every person, even if they have $10 to their name, should pay for every medical visit they have. It changes your perspective on what is important and what is simply not necessary. This is a pretty standard concept in just about any facet of life. If there is some financial cost to doing something, you will prioritize better. This is another reason why it isn't a right. I believe there should be qualifiers for your medical care as instead of it being an action, it is actually a service being rendered. Even if it's something as simple as anyone on Medicaid/Medicare pays $5 per visit.

As to Don Tiny's point about a relative/friend getting sick with no coverage I will say that it is sad but we have to be more realistic here. Many of us with good insurance are going to see either major decreases in our quality of health care or major increases in costs. This money can't come out of thin air. We can try bleeding dry the wallet of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett but you know they are smart enough to keep that money. We need more regulation and more options. Now, if the government wants to get involved in catastrophic care where for a small premium based on income you can be covered if you get cancer or in a car accident I'm all for it. Take it directly out of the welfare check and make it mandatory. Do the same for basic coverage. I actually really like the mandatory coverage of Obamacare. It's about the only really good thing about it.

So, no, not a right. It's something a society that can afford it can decide should be provided. I think our society should but I'm not ready to put it with the right to vote or the right to free speech.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Is it a wrong?

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It could be:

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Brick good to see you posting, I am not reading all of that but just wanted to say good to have you back.

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2018
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