Paul Maholm stats for 2013:10-10 4.41 134IP....91-KO's...44 Walks

Edwin Jackson has become the 1st Cub pitcher to lose 15 games since 2002. He has a 5.88 ERA.

The Cubs had Maholm signed through 2013. He would become a FA in 2014. Jackson is in the 1st year of a 4 year contract worth 52 mil.

Epstein between his last few years in Boston and now year 2 with the Cubs has made some lousy FA moves. Maybe that's why he keeps talking up the minors. Who wouldn't want a job where you don't get judged for 5 fucking years?

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Not agreeing on keeping Malholm, but will agree on Jackson

Very curious move. Longer term deal for a guy who has done the same thing at every stop.

Jackson, is the definition of average MLB, has a good outing then a bad outing. Can find these guys for 1/3 of the cost, all day.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Yeah,I liked Maholm before the Cubs signed him. I am surprised Jackson is this bad. Right now,the Cubs have a great middle relief guy for 52 mil. The 2nd time around the batting order is murder for this guy.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Jackson is exactly what he has always been. Didnt take a secret computer program to know it. Just needed to read the box scores for the last 4 years in the majors!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Then why the huge long contract? Bad bad bad for a genius like Theo. Makes no sense.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I agree

Its like he felt he had to spend some money, but I still dont get why the Years.

I think it is even a hard deal to move since he has been with so many teams.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

You trade Maholm every time.

I hope Jackson wasn't a pissed off reaction to losing out on Sanchez. Its not like Shark has pitched any better in some of his outings and he is going to want a whole lot more money. He can also go out there and deal for 9 innings unlike jackson on occasion though.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

Will this be regarded as his biggest mistake?
like Soriano was for Hendry? Or was it Bradley?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Who cares on either of them? They weren't going to get a better free agent pitcher. Epstein tried and had Sanchez screw them over. Cubs aren't going to be competing in the next five years anyways.

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Paul Maholm? Really? He is just a guy, one of those interchangeable group of pitchers existing on 1-2 year contracts who you are hoping to catch in a good year.

The guy they shouldn't have flipped is Garza.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Yeah,but if you keep Maholm,you don't chase Jackson and save about 45 mil.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

What exactly, does Paul Maholm, of the 10-10 record on one of the best teams in baseball, who has given up 146 hits in a mere 134.2 innings of work do for a rebuilding team? Oh yeah, he also makes $6.5 Million for a starter that happens to have a 1.411 WHIP (that is not good, by any measure).


Pasta, your thoughts on baseball are bad. At least you are consistent.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

So you are defending signing Jackson. Maholm pitched pretty well for the Cubs when they flipped him. I'll take him over Jackson anyday of the week.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

How am I defending signing Jackson? I didn't even mention him. He is perfectly average as well, but that isn't even relevant to the point that Paul Maholm is average at best.

Moreover, as others have mentioned... you can't really evaluate the trade as a "win/loss" until you see what kind of career Vizcaino has.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Im prejudice against crafty left handers. Im never confident in them long term.

Well,I'll take the average guy making about 8 million less. I think Maholm was signed pretty bargain rate when he came to the Cubs. That 52 mil could have been spent on a couple of guys that could hit. The Cubs might not have won this year but at least it would look like Theo tried.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Paul Maholm 2013

WHIP: 1.411
H/9: 9.8
HR/9: 0.9
BB/9: 2.9
SO/9: 6.1
SO/BB: 2.07
IP: 134.2

Edwin Jackson 2013

WHIP: 1.433
H/9: 9.8
HR/9: 0.8
BB/9: 3.1
SO/9: 7.0
SO/BB: 2.28
IP: 155.2

Wrong again, my friend .... there is no statistical evidence that counts (hint: W/L doesn't mean shit) that shows Edwin is materially worse than Paul - though if one has to pick a by the numbers"winner", it's actually Edwin)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maholpa01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacksed01.shtml

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

The one number you left out is 52 million dollars when Maholm provides comparable value for about 6 million. He becomes a FA in 2014.

Hey what about ERA. Mahom is like 4.41,Jackson at 5.88

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Who fucking cares what he makes? There's no salary cap! If there's a salary cap, then you're right; but there's not, so you're (predictably) wrong for worrying about something that means nothing.

Jackson doesn't prevent ANYONE IMPORTANT from being signed. Your contention otherwise is based on ZERO provable information.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

This entire thread speaks to how horrible our lives have gotten as Cubs fans.

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Ask any GM in baseball if being saddled with paying a guy 52 million isn't a burden. The way Ricketts/Theo are talking,it seems like the pursestrings are getting tighter. Spending 52 mil on Jackson looks to be a mistake,but I'm a Cubs fan. Hopefully he rebounds the next 3 years.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

I will entertain the idea that Jackson wasn't quite what he was hoped (or advertised, perhaps) to be.

However, again, whatever was spent on him ultmately does not speed up nor slow down progression to being in contention to win a World Series, which was essentially your initial point (along with everyone in charge being morons despite clear evidence to the contrary).

Having said that, why don't you ask any GM ... I don't know any of them.

I would offer that the quiet undercurrent of the purse-strings being tightened is just there to re-focus Cubs fans FAR beneath you in intellect (and kid, I mean FAR beneath you) that think activity is itself accompishment* (e.g., sign free agent x because, welll, just because). Still far too many troglodytes spend money to get into and drink at the confines, so some very obvious things need to be said in less than obvious ways so as to mitigate the Cub fucks from not spending their afternoons drinking $8 Old Styles.

(*-People that think that way are top-three minimum the kind of people I wish I could bare-handed strangle as I see fit)

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Believe me,the last thing I want is for the Cubs to be signing "just pass prime" type guys for millions of dollars. Like IMU mentioned,they have made a lot of nice garbage signings. All,I want from Theo/Jud is to look at the starting lineup at the end of a season and try to fill in the weak spots with some better players.
This should have been done last year. The Cubs needed hitting in CF,RF,2nd,3rd going into this season. It turns out that the Rizzo & Castro have had miserable seasons (average wise) which I wasn't expecting. So that's 6 line-up spots hurting. They dumped Soriano. The pickups of guys like Sweeney,Bogo,Murphy have really helped. I don't want multi-millions spent,but some decent "stop gap" guys that could hit wouldn't hurt.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

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I will give you that there is no salary cap, but I don't think the "quiet undercurrent" is anything other than the Cubs aren't printing money anymore and will find the going even tougher next season (10k in Wrigley on a daily basis is my prediction as a season ticket holder) and therefore the Jackson signing was incredibly stupid. I don't need Pat Maholm...I don't need Jackson either. Bad signing for the money and length of contract. Wait till he's 32.

The Cubs are email bombing me to get me to sign up for more season tickets. I went to the seat relocation event...seemed like every other seat had a tag on it. Things are really going south and the Cubs don't have the money people assume they do. Their reinvestment in some of their operations south of the border are overstated at best.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Maholm was a good signing, just as Feldman was a good signing. But they were signed with the idea they would be flipped at the trading deadline, unless by some miracle the Cubs were in contention. But you are right about Jackson, as I was right about him BEFORE he was signed. He never should have been signed. He got far too much money and too many years on the deal they gave him. The signing was the one blip in Epstein's execution of his rebuilding plan. Jackson was basically a .500 pitcher going into this season, A 3rd or 4th starter, who is as inconsistent as they come.

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Go Cubs!!!!

EJax does throw 200 innings almost every year, so there is some value in that. You don't want these young pitchers yo-yo ing around in different roles all the time or spot starting if you can avoid it. I'm not saying Edwin is a great pitcher by any stretch of the imagination, but I think the rationale they had was defensible to some extent. It just hasn't quite worked out conclusively this year, but you know, the dude could throw up 14 wins or so at some point during his contract. Not a great signing, but not really ledge-worthy.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

I'm not reading a dumb thread, but this Apologist guy continues to bring it. Couldn't have said it better. Apologist knows about yo-yo'ing pitching prospects. What in the hell is your team doing with Wacha and Martinez?

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I'm not really sure... this is one area where LaRussa and Duncan were much better about having guys clearly understand their roles and expectation. Some of it is on Mozeliak, some on Matheny and Molina, I actually have this theory that Yadier believes that keeping guys on edge a bit keeps them focused. Not just the guys you mentioned. I think Wacha is better equipped to deal with a swing role than Martinez, just due to body type and delivery. CMart has a little Pedro in him, but it remains to be seen if he will realize that potential.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011