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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Jackson will have some high strikeout/dominant games, where this move will seem to make some sense, but he's wildly inconsistent and this was a stupid move. I just pray he has enough high quality starts prior to the trade deadline to make him desireable to a contending team that might be stupid enough to trade for this steaming pile of monkey spunk.


Those who defended this signing might want to reconsider their position. This pile of monkey crap has such poor command he gets in trouble more often than Lindsey Lohan on a bender. It was a DUMB signing, as I said in December. Oh, he will have some good outings when he strikes out 10-12 batters and gets a win. But he will have just as many crap outings like this one. Thats why he is 70-71 lifetime with a 4.40 ERA and has been on 8 teams already.

As someone who likes to quote themselves on here I admire your hubris Steve. Please keep on providing your amazing Cubs insights. That sound you are hearing is the world moving to the edge of their seats waiting for your next missive.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:59 pm 
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A few more of those starts and some enterprising Cubs fans are going to start looking at Epstien's recent history of free agent signings.

It might be better if thw Wrigley deal does not get done and he can only rely on the draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:17 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
A few more of those starts and some enterprising Cubs fans are going to start looking at Epstien's recent history of free agent signings.

It might be better if thw Wrigley deal does not get done and he can only rely on the draft.

Did you know he signed David Ortiz?

For as many times as Ive heard he got a team with Ortiz and Ramirez already there, you'd think you would have heard that.

The recent ones havent been as good.


Id say its about 50-50


Which player was Theo Epstein's best free-agent acquisition?

David Ortiz, DH, 2003

Bill Mueller, INF, 2002

Keith Foulke, RHP, 2004

Hideki Okajima, LHP, 2006

J.D. Drew, OF, 2007

Takashi Saito, RHP, 2009

Marco Scutaro, SS, 2009

Adrian Beltre, 3B, 2010

Alfredo Aceves, RHP, 2011
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Which player was Theo Epstein's worst free-agent acquisition?

Edgar Renteria, SS, 2004

Matt Clement, RHP, 2004

Julio Lugo, SS, 2006

Daisuke Matsuzaka, RHP, 2006

Brad Penny, RHP, 2008

John Smoltz, RHP, 2009

John Lackey, RHP, 2009

Mike Cameron, OF, 2009

Bobby Jenks, RHP, 2011

Carl Crawford, OF, 2011


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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:42 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
A few more of those starts and some enterprising Cubs fans are going to start looking at Epstien's recent history of free agent signings.

It might be better if thw Wrigley deal does not get done and he can only rely on the draft.

Did you know he signed David Ortiz?


Did you know that I used the word "recent" im first sentence for a reason?

He has had some huge clunkers of late.

Ortiz was an inspired signing. I know everyone talks about the steriods but the guy could hit for average with the Twins. Ramirez on the other hand...that was just a matter of who was willing to write the biggest check. He was an MVP who hadn't even reached his prime. It was like signing Cabrera.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:31 am 
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Flip him,right Theo?

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:27 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
A few more of those starts and some enterprising Cubs fans are going to start looking at Epstien's recent history of free agent signings.

It might be better if thw Wrigley deal does not get done and he can only rely on the draft.

Did you know he signed David Ortiz?


Did you know that I used the word "recent" im first sentence for a reason?

Dont be a Caller Bob.

I asked because its reported incorrectly on this site at an alarming rate.

So, Id say he's about a 50-50 shot with FA's and a good amateur talent evaluater.

Interestingly the bigger money FA were worse. The Bill Mueller, Okajimas and David Ortiz's are impressive.


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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:28 am 
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jimmypasta wrote:
Flip him,right Theo?

Id say so.

Do you think that start yesterday destroyed any trade value?


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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:39 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
Flip him,right Theo?

Id say so.

Do you think that start yesterday destroyed any trade value?


No. And if you're even thinking about competing in '14 or '15 you're going to need guys like Jackson. You aren't going to do it with whatever prospects he may bring. He's signed relatively cheap for the guy he is and he has good upside to have a huge year within the next few seasons. I wouldn't be so quick to move him unless the shaky debt structure of the Ricketts family has pushed the ETA for competitive baseball back to '17 or '18.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:48 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
Flip him,right Theo?

Id say so.

Do you think that start yesterday destroyed any trade value?


No. And if you're even thinking about competing in '14 or '15 you're going to need guys like Jackson. You aren't going to do it with whatever prospects he may bring. He's signed relatively cheap for the guy he is and he has good upside to have a huge year within the next few seasons. I wouldn't be so quick to move him unless the shaky debt structure of the Ricketts family has pushed the ETA for competitive baseball back to '17 or '18.

Depends on the pitching market too. Sometimes these signings look expensive and end up as bargains


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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:14 am 
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He is fully capable of going out and throwing six shutout innings in his next outing.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:43 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
He is fully capable of going out and throwing six shutout innings in his next outing.

This. I mean it was a terrible start with the win blowing out. You have the dude for 4 years. He usually manages 200 innings. Lets give it until May before we run him out of town.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:36 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
He is fully capable of going out and throwing six shutout innings in his next outing.

Yes he is. the problem with jackson is his inconsistency. For every good game, he has a bad one. thats why he's 70-73 in his career. He can't locate his pitches well, so he walks too many and gets into predictable (2-0, 3-1) counts, where he gets hit. I don't care if you throw 96. If a MLB hitter knows a fastball is coming, chances are decent he will hit it hard somewhere. In his no-hitter a few years back with Arizona, he allowed 8 walks!!! It wasn't a great game really. He got a lot of strikeouts against hitters dumb enough to swing at pitches out of the strike zone. Against patient hitting teams he tends to do poorly. On this team, I expect him to go something like 11-15. They could have brought Zambrano back for 3 million a year for 2 years to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:19 am 
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There were plenty of defending/supporting posts made for the Jackson signing, including those from Joe Orr, Phil McCracken, Drop In, cpguy and RFDC. Darkside only made his stupid post about "Everyone being against the signing" to try to minimize any credit I could claim for being staunchly against the signing from the start. I don't care if they had 200 million available for salaries for the 2013 season, to over-spend on mediocre (or worse) players, is stupid. He was a .500 pitcher with a 4.40 ERA. That translates into a #4 starter at best. You don't pay 14 million a season to a #4 starter.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
There were plenty of defending/supporting posts made for the Jackson signing, including those from Joe Orr, Phil McCracken, Drop In, cpguy and RFDC. Darkside only made his stupid post about "Everyone being against the signing" to try to minimize any credit I could claim for being staunchly against the signing from the start. I don't care if they had 200 million available for salaries for the 2013 season, to over-spend on mediocre (or worse) players, is stupid. He was a .500 pitcher with a 4.40 ERA. That translates into a #4 starter at best. You don't pay 14 million a season to a #4 starter.

Jesus. You are one weird fucker. "Credit" for being against a signing? Who else on this planet is this needy?

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:27 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
IF he is signed to a no trade clause,the team should demand a buyout clause in case he sucks to high heaven. It's only fair.


Wow,This statement made last December,even impressed me.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:04 pm 
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This man can not be contained. HR!!!!! Finally on the right end of one.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:11 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But guys like that have value. There are less balls put into play. That's the thing about pitching. Guys like Mark Buehrle- and there aren't a lot of them- are unbelievably consistent in hitting spots and doing what they want. But that can only take them so far. Guys like Edwin Jackson and Gavin Floyd, if they can find consistency in their deliveries they have the opportunity to have a special year. And most guys like them do put together that giant season at least once in their careers. The idea is to have them do it for you. I think the Cubs signed Jackson at the right time. They'll probably get his best years. The next team that signs Floyd will probably get his. The Sox will get a draft pick or some minor league bums.





Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
Flip him,right Theo?

Id say so.

Do you think that start yesterday destroyed any trade value?


No. And if you're even thinking about competing in '14 or '15 you're going to need guys like Jackson. You aren't going to do it with whatever prospects he may bring. He's signed relatively cheap for the guy he is and he has good upside to have a huge year within the next few seasons. I wouldn't be so quick to move him unless the shaky debt structure of the Ricketts family has pushed the ETA for competitive baseball back to '17 or '18.


Joe comes out as both the most wrong AND the most prescient in this thread about the Cubs. I think we are looking at '17 or '18 IF the Cubs have somehow worked out a far better TV deal. And the Jackson signing continues to mystify me as Gordon Whittenmire continues to say the Cubs are short on money. If you're going to be bad, be bad. Don't sign a bad pitcher to a bad (albeit frontloaded) contract.

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Last edited by City of Fools on Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:16 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But guys like that have value. There are less balls put into play. That's the thing about pitching. Guys like Mark Buehrle- and there aren't a lot of them- are unbelievably consistent in hitting spots and doing what they want. But that can only take them so far. Guys like Edwin Jackson and Gavin Floyd, if they can find consistency in their deliveries they have the opportunity to have a special year. And most guys like them do put together that giant season at least once in their careers. The idea is to have them do it for you. I think the Cubs signed Jackson at the right time. They'll probably get his best years. The next team that signs Floyd will probably get his. The Sox will get a draft pick or some minor league bums.





Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
Flip him,right Theo?

Id say so.

Do you think that start yesterday destroyed any trade value?


No. And if you're even thinking about competing in '14 or '15 you're going to need guys like Jackson. You aren't going to do it with whatever prospects he may bring. He's signed relatively cheap for the guy he is and he has good upside to have a huge year within the next few seasons. I wouldn't be so quick to move him unless the shaky debt structure of the Ricketts family has pushed the ETA for competitive baseball back to '17 or '18.


Joe comes out as both the most wrong AND the most prescient about the Cubs. I think we are looking at '17 or '18 IF the Cubs have somehow worked out a far better TV deal. And the Jackson signing continues to mystify me as Gordon Whittenmire continues to say the Cubs are short on money. If you're going to be bad, be bad. Don't sign a bad pitcher to a bad (albeit frontloaded) contract.


I understand the Jackson signing, but I'm starting to think he may be a guy who never puts it all together.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:22 am 
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starting to?

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:25 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
starting to?


He still has the kind of stuff that makes one want to believe he is capable of more. But maybe he just is who he is. Still, in a world where "Losing Pitcher" John Danks and Anibal Sanchez are paid the way they are, I don't think Jackson's contract is an atrocity.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:35 am 
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who would you rather have, Jackson or Sanchez?

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:36 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think Jackson's contract is an atrocity.
He leads all of MLB with 17 losses.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:52 am 
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Are you suggesting that Anibal Sanchez isn't performing to the level that he is paid?



If that's the case, I'm just going to disregard your comments on pitchers even moreso than I already do

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:03 am 
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Apologist wrote:
Are you suggesting that Anibal Sanchez isn't performing to the level that he is paid?


City of Fools wrote:
who would you rather have, Jackson or Sanchez?


Sanchez is having a good year. But I don't think before this season there was a marked difference between him and Jackson. And for the money, I'd rather have Jackson going forward. My guess would be that at the end of their respective deals, their results and production will be similar.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:52 pm 
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I was in the camp of wanting Sanchez, at the cost that he eventually got paid. I wanted nothing to do with Jackson. I can't understand why anyone would have based on who he was and how old he was. I completely agree with the outcry that accompanied his signing. If possible, he's even worse than I thought he would be and I thought he would be pretty bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:08 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
I was in the camp of wanting Sanchez, at the cost that he eventually got paid. I wanted nothing to do with Jackson. I can't understand why anyone would have based on who he was and how old he was. I completely agree with the outcry that accompanied his signing. If possible, he's even worse than I thought he would be and I thought he would be pretty bad.


I suspect Jackson is a little younger than Sanchez.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
I was in the camp of wanting Sanchez, at the cost that he eventually got paid. I wanted nothing to do with Jackson. I can't understand why anyone would have based on who he was and how old he was. I completely agree with the outcry that accompanied his signing. If possible, he's even worse than I thought he would be and I thought he would be pretty bad.


I suspect Jackson is a little younger than Sanchez.


Jackson is one year older.

I'd rather the Cubs overspend for someone they wanted(Sanchez) than someone they settled on(Jackson). But I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Jackson just yet. Most big name FA signings suck in their first year with the Cubs. I'll hold out hope that Jackson rebounds in year two. If he doesn't, then it was a terrible signing.


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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Old Man River wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
I was in the camp of wanting Sanchez, at the cost that he eventually got paid. I wanted nothing to do with Jackson. I can't understand why anyone would have based on who he was and how old he was. I completely agree with the outcry that accompanied his signing. If possible, he's even worse than I thought he would be and I thought he would be pretty bad.


I suspect Jackson is a little younger than Sanchez.


Jackson is one year older.

I'd rather the Cubs overspend for someone they wanted(Sanchez) than someone they settled on(Jackson). But I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Jackson just yet. Most big name FA signings suck in their first year with the Cubs. I'll hold out hope that Jackson rebounds in year two. If he doesn't, then it was a terrible signing.

Think JORR is implying the Venezuelan's age is doctored.


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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:21 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Think JORR is implying the Venezuelan's age is doctored.


Yeah. In fact, I think "Anibal" is actually the guy's sister or cousin since it's a girl's name.

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 Post subject: Re: Edwin Jackson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:49 pm 
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I think the Cubs have the highest paid middle relief guy in baseball. Jackson can give you a solid 3-4 innings.

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