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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:18 am 
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Will cost at least fifty million dollars. How in God's name does it cost this much to build an L station? I mean, I think it's a good idea if they're serious about souping up the South Loop/McCormick Place, and it makes sense to have a stop between Roosevelt and 35th anyway (that's 2.5 miles without a stop), but what sort of architectural wonder does it have to be?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:38 am 
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That's a fuck-load for some baffle gates, motorized stairs and a place to stand.

Maybe it costs that much to get that proper urine-soaked scent that Clark/Lake has.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:59 am 
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I found the Morgan stop to be quite extravagant for the Lake Street branch. You don't need to build the Death Star here, geez.

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$50 million should, in theory, be enough to build at State/Cermak AND Paulina/Madison. Hell, most of the stations on the Kennedy look like they cost about five bucks (not adjusting for inflation here).

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:06 am 
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Another reason why public transportation sucks.

I can't wait until we have self driving cars and the problem of public transportation is solved.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:57 am 
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If anything, the congestion caused by all those new self-driving cars would make public transit even more sensible for high-density areas.

Speaking of that last part, I think you once referred to me as a "public transportation meatball." I don't think that's entirely true. I think rapid transit and commuter rail are great, but only in a handful of major American cities. Light rail is almost always a giant waste of everybody's money. Nobody needs trains in fucking Salt Lake City or Charlotte or [Insert Fast-Growing Sun Belt City Here]. They go for like six miles, make eight stops, cost a zillion dollars, and no one uses them. Basically, the only cities worthy of seriously spending on rail infrastructure are the ones that already have serious rail infrastructure: NY tri-state area, Chicago, Boston, Philly, SF, DC

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:10 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
If anything, the congestion caused by all those new self-driving cars would make public transit even more sensible for high-density areas.
Self driving cars should actually lower congestion significantly especially since on major roads and expressways they'll basically be private train cars.
Curious Hair wrote:
Speaking of that last part, I think you once referred to me as a "public transportation meatball." I don't think that's entirely true. I think rapid transit and commuter rail are great, but only in a handful of major American cities. Light rail is almost always a giant waste of everybody's money. Nobody needs trains in fucking Salt Lake City or Charlotte or [Insert Fast-Growing Sun Belt City Here]. They go for like six miles, make eight stops, cost a zillion dollars, and no one uses them. Basically, the only cities worthy of seriously spending on rail infrastructure are the ones that already have serious rail infrastructure: NY tri-state area, Chicago, Boston, Philly, SF, DC
Public transportation almost always sucks. It sucks everywhere in the United States. The only reason it exists more is because in some circumstances driving sucks more and because people currently go to work mostly at the same time and you need a solution for certain time periods.

The only public transportation I truly enjoyed was the Washington Metro, and that was because I was only there for a few days and I didn't have to rent a car so I saved money.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:17 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Public transportation almost always sucks. It sucks everywhere in the United States. The only reason it exists more is because in some circumstances driving sucks more and because people currently go to work mostly at the same time and you need a solution for certain time periods.


well, that and the fact that the suburbanization of near-urban areas didn't start en masse until the 1950s, so in roughly 25k years of human history there's only been ~30-40 years of assuming that most people have their own car. if you were born and raised in sub/urban areas in these last 30-40 years, the idea of not having a car seems quizzical and wrong... but once you get detached from that paradigm you'll see that there's much more inherent worth to public trans than you realized whipping around in your $25k+ good times machine.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:20 am 
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Not to mention that a mere 2 blocks west there is a Red Line stop at Cermak.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:06 am 
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Right, but if the idea is to build up that area, it kinda needs to have its own station. It just doesn't have to be a palace. All those cool kids moving into South Loop condos aren't going to feel like walking to Chinatown to get on the L. Same with people going to McCormick, if people still have occasion to go there anymore.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Not to mention that a mere 2 blocks west there is a Red Line stop at Cermak.

Exactly.

I would think that they would have done the Pink Line stop at Madison/Paulina for the United Center first, especially with the Blackhawks and their gaining popularity.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:02 am 
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The only problem with Madison/Paulina is that it's on the Pink Line and thus requires a transfer in the Loop for anyone who doesn't live in Cicero or Pilsen. But if they're going to build up around the United Center, then there needs to be a stop as close to the building and the associated shops/bars as possible so you're dropped off right in the heart of that development. You don't want people walking from Ashland or Medical District if they don't have to, especially in the cold.

Also, you would need public transit to account for the parking spaces lost to development. Maybe the city should ask WirtzDorf to engage in a public-private partnership and finance some of the construction themselves as a condition of the tax breaks they'll inevitably get.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:49 am 
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$75 million to build a station at Washington/Wabash. Doesn't say how much it'll cost to demolish Randolph/Wabash and Madison/Wabash. Knocking out Randolph seems pretty cruel for people who need to make Electric/South Shore transfers and would prefer not to freeze when doing so.

At least one of the two has some decent historical value, but I can't remember which.

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As a facebook commenter points out, this roof, while a "nice" architectural flourish, fails to protect anyone from precipitation. Derp.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:28 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
$75 million to build a station at Washington/Wabash. Doesn't say how much it'll cost to demolish Randolph/Wabash and Madison/Wabash. Knocking out Randolph seems pretty cruel for people who need to make Electric/South Shore transfers and would prefer not to freeze when doing so.

At least one of the two has some decent historical value, but I can't remember which.

Image
As a facebook commenter points out, this roof, while a "nice" architectural flourish, fails to protect anyone from precipitation. Derp.


I guess I'm the only one that sees the glass/clear material between the white spikes

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:32 am 
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The glass will be covered in pigeon shit within 3 days.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Oh, I see the plexiglass now.

I don't get it, though. There is nothing on Wabash that looks remotely like that. "A counterpoint to the city grid" or whatever it said in the press release is a euphemism for "this is garish."

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Another reason why public transportation sucks.

I can't wait until we have self driving cars and the problem of public transportation is solved.


werd. i cant believe we as a nation aren't massively funding auto drive technology. all we hear about is "TEXTING KILLS!" "DRUNK DRIVING KILLS!" "WE NEED MORE ROADBLOCKS AND UNDERCOVER COPS!". really? we need authority with more power? are people just stupid or they still scared of the terrorists?

fund auto-drive, become the leading nation in the world on the technology. beat everyone else to it, and watch our economy SKYROCKET while road deaths become as frequent as airline fatalities. the technology is here. its possible. it just needs funding.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:42 pm 
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That would be great, but it doesn't address the fact that the infrastructure and density patterns of Chicago aren't conducive to driving. Even if my car drove itself down the Kennedy from Busse Woods to the Loop, I wouldn't want to.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Fuck Auto-drive cars, give me the mother fuckin' Jetson cars!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:25 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
That would be great, but it doesn't address the fact that the infrastructure and density patterns of Chicago aren't conducive to driving. Even if my car drove itself down the Kennedy from Busse Woods to the Loop, I wouldn't want to.
Of course you would. At the start, until more of them get on the road, it may be a little slower, but you can watch tv, take a nap, read a book(not me personally, reading sucks), or post on this board. No walks and transfers and worries about rain. No panhandlers or guy talking too loud on his cell phone. No planning out your trip so the train that leaves once every hour is there. No worries that you will miss the last train out and have to sleep in Union Station like a hobo.

Self driving cars are basically private train cars. They have all the advantages with none of the disadvantages besides the perceived slowness but even that is likely to be solved by Self driving only lanes and advanced congestion management.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:28 am 
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tim tebow will win a super bowl before you can take a nap while driving.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:35 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
tim tebow will win a super bowl before you can take a nap while driving.
There are cars on the road in America today where you can do this. They just aren't for sale.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:37 am 
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There are places where Tim Tebow wins Super Bowls too. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
That would be great, but it doesn't address the fact that the infrastructure and density patterns of Chicago aren't conducive to driving. Even if my car drove itself down the Kennedy from Busse Woods to the Loop, I wouldn't want to.


youre not thinking about it forward. how much room is between you and the car ahead at all times? at least a car length? behind? another car length. at least.

auto drive cars will talk to eachother. they will know eachothers intentions before anything even happens. they theoretically could drive inches from each other, which would AT LEAST double the amount of road space. plus, they would be able to get through intersections MUCH quicker because they know what the other cars are trying to do.

it will get to the point where human drivers are literally incapable of keeping up. nobody will be allowed to drive because the human body cannot compete with computer drivers. and like said, even if there is a stoppage or slowdown who cares.. just browse the internet or jackoff or both

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:19 pm 
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So, then instead of parking, does your auto car head back to your house and park itself in the garage, then come back to get you at the end of the day?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:25 pm 
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K Effective wrote:
So, then instead of parking, does your auto car head back to your house and park itself in the garage, then come back to get you at the end of the day?


Maybe it and the other cars can head up to Wrigley and catch a game while we're at work.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:38 pm 
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There are great "happiness" and quality of life benefits to self-driving vehicles. But the idea that it's going to be an immediate or even near-mid-term positive for the general economy is dubious.

For example, the groups of vehicles most likely to be converted to self driving first? Trucks carrying freight; which will be able to be operated/monitored from a central location by geeks in front of computers, similar to drones, but without the whole staying airborne thing. Which development will in the next 5 to 10 years put somewhere between 3 million to 7 million truckers out of what are relatively decent paying jobs for folks who didn't bother with college.

And then you have self-driving city busses..and self-driving taxis...a lot of people out of work.

You'll need some folks to maintain and monitor these self-driving vehicles. But it's the same thing that happened with factories. U.S. factories today are staffed by 1 guy and a dog, and the dude is there mostly to feed the dog.

Over-time the economy will create new lines of work, but the impact over the next generation has the very real potential to be devastating to the U.S. economy as currently configured. 10? 20? 30? million currently decent paying jobs gone in the next 5 to 15 years.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:08 pm 
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NearWessSideHussra wrote:
K Effective wrote:
So, then instead of parking, does your auto car head back to your house and park itself in the garage, then come back to get you at the end of the day?


Maybe it and the other cars can head up to Wrigley and catch a game while we're at work.


and it also will give you a happy ending if you wish


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:59 pm 
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Probably something like the Divvy bike program for cars---a zip car or i-go but on a much larger scale. You'd summon a car from a shared pool of cars
to pick you up in the AM and then after it dropped you off at work it'd either return to a holding pen or pick up someone else. You'd probably end up taking a different car home at night.

Some observations from a recent study on the issue of self-driving, crash-free vehicles:

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Future Impact of Self-Driving Cars Would Be Big: Study
By Ben Klayman | August 15, 2012
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Consulting firm KPMG and the Center for Automotive Research in Michigan released a report this month about how close the industry is to rolling out self-driving cars. They see the first such vehicles hitting showrooms in 2019, with a more developed infrastructure by 2025.

However, KPMG and CAR said the implications of a totally driverless car that doesn’t crash would be huge:

Automakers cut weight from cars and trucks as crashless cars do not need to be made with as much reinforced steel or as many safety devices like airbags. That would lower vehicle costs, speed up vehicle development time and boost fuel efficiency.
Automated cars would drive in tighter packs because computers would control their speed and spacing. That would mean smaller roads were necessary and result in the elimination of shoulders and guardrails, leading to a significant reduction in the $75 billion spent annually on roads, highways and other infrastructure.
With computers controlling the cars, driving would be more efficient and thus faster, leading to less congestion on the roads. Fuel consumption would decline and companies that rely on just-in-time delivery could reduce inventories even further.
Automated cars also would allow for the elimination of traffic and road lights in many cases. That would slash energy use drastically.
Driverless cars would mean a change in the way drivers are insured, and could even end the need for car insurance.
Hospitals would lose more than two million crash victims sent annually to U.S. emergency rooms.
Crashless cars would mean auto repair shops see fewer damaged cars, meaning they would need to shift their business model to serving the aftermarket needs of existing cars that lack autonomous driving systems.
Steelmakers would have to adjust to a world where cars use less of their product.
State and local governments would have to adjust to the loss of traffic fines, possibly reducing their police forces. Governments might seek to replace some of that lost revenue; perhaps with infrastructure usage fees.
Less expensive, driverless cars would open ownership to new audiences like younger generations or even the blind, but they also could lead to wider vehicle sharing that would slash global sales.
If vehicle sharing expanded, cars could be summoned as needed and people could pay for mobility services as needed instead of owning a vehicle.
Autonomous transportation could eliminate the need for and cost of high-speed trains.
Vehicle sharing could keep vehicles in more constant use, reducing the need for parking lots that take up a lot of land in cities.
Lighter, easier-to-build cars could open the auto industry to new rivals using a model like Apple’s, where a company designs and markets a product but outsources its construction.
A connected, driverless car network would require security from hackers and would raise privacy concerns with many consumers.


http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/na ... 259375.htm

saw an estimate that in total 20-30% of the workforce could be impacted (as in reduced) by the full implementation of self-driving cars.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:58 am 
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http://www.fixunionstation.com/

Interesting site I found today. I have to say I like the idea in theory. As someone who has spent a fair amount of time there, it is weird that the Union Station hall itself is a ghost town while everyone has to crowd into the food court, the concourse, or that miserable Amtrak gate. I just don't know how you can draw it up so that it actually makes sense to wait in the great hall, across the street from where you eventually need to board.

But of course, a commuter railroad system isn't worth improving because we'll all just have drone cars by next Thursday anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:18 am 
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NearWessSideHussra wrote:
That's a fuck-load for some baffle gates, motorized stairs and a place to stand.

http://www.chicago-l.org/stations/image ... ring01.jpg
http://www.chicago-l.org/stations/image ... ring03.jpg

I get that you want this to be a featured station, but god damn, dudes, this is excessive.

Also, this Ventra thing just gets worse and worse every day, doesn't it?

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