True

wrong. The goal is to put butts in the seats. A team that is somewhat competitive but has to sell at the deadline does that.

Isn't Theo a genius? Why can't he exploit market inequalities to pick up cheap free agents that will produce enough to make the Cubs .500 while they wait for the farm system to be "rebuilt?"

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

COF,

Dat's Right!

I posted (In one of these threads) that Theo wants a crap team from Day 1 so he doesn't have to get saddled with flipping good players with a team in contention.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

If they were .500 at the deadline and started making trades, an army of JimmyPastas would have decended upon Wrigley and dragged Theo through the streets.

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My God,the thought of that!

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

They lose another 100 games next season and I'm going to enlist.

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Who outside of the media calls him a genius? I think that's a big issue for you to deal with. He's not magical. He's playing the same game as every other GM. Even the best GM in the world can't snap his fingers and win a world series. I think the media has given you unreal expectations.


That said, some of the signings from this last off-season were pretty good and the team was in shouting distance of .500 before the All Star break. They chose to sell and get more assets, than sit around at .500 and sell a few extra tickets. That should be a positive thing, I would think.

The Rays have had as many 90 win seasons in the past 6 years as the Cubs have had since WW2. Holy shit.

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Team Cutler.

Then why bring in Theo? The Cubs have had great attendance for years. Why even bother trying to win then?

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Yea, I disagree with that premise. IMO, fans should be happy that the goal is to field a competitive team for a long time. Rather than short term butts in seats.

Playing in a shit stadium in a division with the Yankees and Red Sox. It's depressing as hell.

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that would be because someone actually CARED about the team, which would mean there were...fannies in the seats.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Fannies in the seats does not necessarily equal caring about the team. Cubs fans should realize this more than anybody.

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the Cubs have not had good attendance since early 2009. Theo was brought in to buy time (read: keep fans buying tickets) while he rebuilds. The overall goal was to keep up the money flow while the product stunk.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

there would have been higher attendance if the Cubs had even been somewhat competitive this season. Period.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Probably.

But again, the goal is attendance? Like I said if thats the case, why bring in Theo? Why even try to win? Making the playoffs once a decade keeps fannies in the seats.

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not anymore. You wouldn't know cause you don't go, but I'm a season ticket holder. Things aren't the same since 2003 and more so since 2008. Things are headed to a Sox level in Cubville. People are not putting up with things anymore, probably due to a down economy but there's just no patience anymore for consistent bad teams. Obviously Theo was brought in for multiple things but one of them was to get a big name to assure Cubs fans of future performance and to encourage consistency in attendance while that future performance was built. Apparently Theo is ONLY good at building a farm system, not at getting great surprising earth shattering cheap free agent signings.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

COF, I think you are REALLY misguided on expectations from Theo. He's not a miracle worker. He doesn't touch shitty free agents and make them good.


I'm sure the Cubs expected to get close to maintaining the attendance numbers they had, but it's not happening. I'm sure they are disappointed. But if selling tickets was Theo's only requirement, you would have seen him managing this season drastically differently than he did. They would have spent free agency money erratically on big names, to try to put butts in the seats. They wouldn't have sold off.


The lack of big signings, the sell-off, etc... is a good sign that Ricketts and Theo were ok with a shitty MLB roster and lackluster attendance. They are willing to take the hit now to fix it for the future. Those actions ultimately disprove your theory that Theo is supposed to put asses in seats.

let's go with the assumption you're right. When does this team get really good again? No big name manager to get fans in the door now, however short term that would have been...no renovations set to go this year. No pitching to speak of in the minors. The TV deal is now a greatly reduced moneymaker. Where's the capital to come from to get this team from point B to C? You have to be somewhat competitive. You have to keep the turnstiles clicking. With the debt load this ownership group has, Theo HAS to be a miracle worker in the free agent pool. He has to find the rejects and make them good. That is a part of his job, whether he or the Cubs realizes it yet or not.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Man,COF,I love the cut of your jib.


It's never a good idea to lose on purpose. I can be mocked from here till the end of time but that is how I feel. They spent 52 million on a pitcher. If they would have broken that money 3 or 4 ways on some short term bats,the Cubs might have been interesting last season.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

So, the consensus seems to be "No".

Good thing that is settled.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

People go to games because a "big name" is managing the team?

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Unlike others, I don't pretend to know what the plan is. I don't know if they plan to spend big on this off-season. I think their interest in Giraridi was a signal they are ready to compete more at the major league level. I don't know that for sure.


Your worries about capital are sensible from the outside, but you don't know how it's playing out on the inside. Again, if there were HUGE issues about capital, they wouldn't have sold off. They would have kept the team competitive to draw more fans. They did the opposite, which to me at least signals they are prepared to move forward without that capital. The Cubs are still very profitable.

No. But I feel his pain. He's a season ticket holder. He's not getting value out of his money spent. It would "feel" better spending the money if it appeared the Cubs were trying harder at the big league level... by signing a big name.


I get why he feels that way.

I don't have to speak for jimmy or COF, but I don't think it's really about a "big name". It's about running a competitive team in a responsible manner and not accepting that that can't be done while making the farm system better. Anyone should be able to see why abandoning the big league team to wait on prospects might not make the guy buying big league tickets at big league prices very happy.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I said "however short-term." But feel free to not read my whole sentence. I don't put any stock in a big name manager. Joe Girardi means little to me...find the right guy. For the sake of at least INITIAL ticket sales, bring in a big name guy for two-three years until you're going to be competitive. But here's my thing, which continues to not be addressed by anyone fully. Theo is a supposed master of market inequalities. So use that knowledge to predict future free agent performance by cheap older talent that will be gone by the time the real talent is here. I expect Theo to do everything but walk on water. That's what I was sold on as a Cubs fan. So far he has proved he's just as susceptible to playing favorites (bringing in Rizzo, who has turned into a pull-only hitter) and making poor decisions on pitching, see Edwin Jackson. If you're going to spend money, spend it well! Spend it in ways no one sees coming. Zig where everyone expects you to zag. Don't go after the obvious FA pitcher. Give me more Travis Woods. Give me more Nate Schierholtz's. Fill out the lineup card with those guys and don't be wrong! Give me a better success rate so I can watch a .500 team instead of what I've had the past two years, because this rebuild is still at least 2 years away, which by my count would be four seasons without a somewhat accomplished team.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Of course it doesn't make them happy! Why would it?


The Cubs are consciously making the decision to do it. It's not like it's a secret to them. They feel the way they are doing it is the best way. It's hard to argue without knowing how it is affecting the money side of the business.

That said, if COF doesn't buy his tickets next year, they will eventually get sold if the Cubs get better. That's the gamble Ricketts is taking on Theo. It may not work! Shocker, I know. But to me, that seems to be what they are doing.

The media sold you a raw deal, unfortunately. Theo isn't a god. He will make mistakes. He's not perfect.

I'm not sure on that anymore Chris. When I got in in 2003, there was a supposed 10000 fan backload. Guess what, I got tickets on the first call. The demand has only gone down. Even in 2008 after a great 2007 there were empty seats on a regular basis, and you have to pack that place to make money. Life is only going to get harder for Cubs ticket sales people. Someone's not going to snatch up my season tickets the day the Cubs get good and the Cubs need my money now. And everyone else's money, since they're putting up no signage, have no guaranteed TV billions and play in a craphole stadium.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

So far,the Jackson signing looks bad. There is still a good chance he comes back big next year. If he goes 16-14 with 200+ innings then he is a solid back of the rotation guy.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."