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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:29 pm 
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You franchise him for a year. The marginal cost of franchising him versus the cost of signing some other yokel off the street on a multiple year deal makes the decision easy. You have value in your ability to control him.

You draft a replacement. If Cutler excels, you sign him to a deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:47 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
You franchise him for a year. The marginal cost of franchising him versus the cost of signing some other yokel off the street on a multiple year deal makes the decision easy. You have value in your ability to control him.

You draft a replacement. If Cutler excels, you sign him to a deal.


From a financial standpoint it makes absolutely no sense to give Cutler $20M next season. You may be able to get a guy to come here for 3 years at that price tag. I'll take the yokel and the savings and if my rookie draft pick is ready by Year 2 I will release that yokel and it only cost me about $7M.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:52 pm 
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A lot of ifs and mays in that opinion.

Cutler is a bona fide talent. Sometimes with age those guys finally get it. You have control over him.

Why bring in a lesser talent at 3 years/$30 mil on a hope? You take the one year gamble and if it doesn't work out turn it over to your pick and save $6-12 mil.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:56 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
A lot of ifs and mays in that opinion.

Cutler is a bona fide talent. Sometimes with age those guys finally get it. You have control over him.

Why bring in a lesser talent at 3 years/$30 mil on a hope? You take the one year gamble and if it doesn't work out turn it over to your pick and save $6-12 mil.

I just opened a thread regarding issues like this. Next season,I would rather the Bears sign 2 capable QB's at 3-4 million each + draft a rookie QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:57 pm 
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2 Jason Campbells and a rookie?

No thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
A lot of ifs and mays in that opinion.

Cutler is a bona fide talent. Sometimes with age those guys finally get it. You have control over him.

Why bring in a lesser talent at 3 years/$30 mil on a hope? You take the one year gamble and if it doesn't work out turn it over to your pick and save $6-12 mil.


What's your goal for next season? How do you plan on addressing the holes on defense? Giving Cutler $20M would make it difficult to plug those holes. After another season lost to injury no one would offer Cutler $15M. There is no need to tag him at all. Besides you can release the yokel and not take a cap hit. I would rather have Sam Bradford at $6M than Cutler at $20M especially if my plans are to turn the team over to my draft pick.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:16 pm 
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1. Sam Bradford is worse than Cutler.

2. Is any halfway decent FA QB coming without guaranteed signing money?

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:19 pm 
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2013's QB franchise tag was $14.86 mil.

So figure it would be a $16 mil tag for one year.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
1. Sam Bradford is worse than Cutler.

2. Is any halfway decent FA QB coming without guaranteed signing money?


Cutler is better but not by $14M. I imagine a guy like Bradford would be looking for an incentive laden contract and the chance to prove himself. If you spend a 1st round pick on a QB you're not planning on keeping Cutler anyway. May as well replenish the defense with the other $14M.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Is Bradford working for free? You're going to pay him $10 mil.

I'd rather gamble the extra $6 mil on Cutler reaching his potential in an offense he knows.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:26 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Is Bradford working for free? You're going to pay him $10 mil.

I'd rather gamble the extra $6 mil on Cutler reaching his potential in an offense he knows.

I think you can get Cutler for that as a base for a year. After coming off an acl injury Bradford is looking backup QB in the face. He'll sign just for the starting job.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:29 pm 
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If you can get Cutler on a one year Andre Dawson contract for $10 mil, go for it. But he should fire his agent.

When he turns that down, tag him.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If you can get Cutler on a one year Andre Dawson contract for $10 mil, go for it. But he should fire his agent.

When he turns that down, tag him.


Either I'm undervaluing what he can get on an open market or you all are dramatically overvaluing him. He isn't young and he hasn't accomplished anything. Why pay him all that money? Sure he's talented but he rarely plays up to his talent. I don't see him getting a huge deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:36 pm 
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To be clear I would love to have Cutler back at the right price until a rookie develops.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:39 pm 
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He's not old. I could easily see him getting minimum 4/50 out of somebody with about 20 guaranteed.

He's not doing 1/10.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:16 pm 
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my biggest concern now is all the injuries. this guy gets hurt every year.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:46 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If you can get Cutler on a one year Andre Dawson contract for $10 mil, go for it. But he should fire his agent.

When he turns that down, tag him.
That is incredibly rare though. In the NFL, you almost always move on from the failed starter when you draft a rookie that high. The NFL has changed. Draft a rookie and play him is pretty common.

Though, Jay Cutler on a franchise tag and a rookie attempting to take his job in camp will make some great reality television.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:08 am 
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After every pick fans would be screaming for the backup if a 1st round pick was used. He hasn't had that issue as a Bear because they all have sucked. I'm not sure if he is mentally tough enough to handle that.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:55 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:19 am 
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The odds of drafting someone better than Cutler are roughly 50 to 1.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:32 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
The odds of drafting someone better than Cutler are roughly 50 to 1.
No. There will likely be 2 or 3 quarterbacks in next years draft who are better than him especially 2 or 3 years down the line when Cutler starts to see declines.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:35 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If you can get Cutler on a one year Andre Dawson contract for $10 mil, go for it. But he should fire his agent.

When he turns that down, tag him.
That is incredibly rare though. In the NFL, you almost always move on from the failed starter when you draft a rookie that high. The NFL has changed. Draft a rookie and play him is pretty common.

Though, Jay Cutler on a franchise tag and a rookie attempting to take his job in camp will make some great reality television.


You can draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and sit him for a couple years. Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years.

Worst case Cutler sucks in his year and you go to your guy in his 2nd year.

Or Cutler leads them to a Super Bowl and you sign him and your draft pick sits for 3 or 4 years and takes over when he's 26 or so right at the same time that you draft your new prospect QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:40 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If you can get Cutler on a one year Andre Dawson contract for $10 mil, go for it. But he should fire his agent.

When he turns that down, tag him.
That is incredibly rare though. In the NFL, you almost always move on from the failed starter when you draft a rookie that high. The NFL has changed. Draft a rookie and play him is pretty common.

Though, Jay Cutler on a franchise tag and a rookie attempting to take his job in camp will make some great reality television.


You can draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and sit him for a couple years. Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years.

Worst case Cutler sucks in his year and you go to your guy in his 2nd year.

Or Cutler leads them to a Super Bowl and you sign him and your draft pick sits for 3 or 4 years and takes over when he's 26 or so right at the same time that you draft your new prospect QB.
Good luck fixing other holes on this team paying two quarterbacks like that. One of the more current NFL models is to build your team around a cheaper QB on a rookie deal to add flexibility to sign other players.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:41 am 
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You should draft one every year and maybe one in ten will be worth anything. The history is right there. I gave it to you upthread. Unless you think Emery is some sort of QB scouting genius.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:41 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If you can get Cutler on a one year Andre Dawson contract for $10 mil, go for it. But he should fire his agent.

When he turns that down, tag him.
That is incredibly rare though. In the NFL, you almost always move on from the failed starter when you draft a rookie that high. The NFL has changed. Draft a rookie and play him is pretty common.

Though, Jay Cutler on a franchise tag and a rookie attempting to take his job in camp will make some great reality television.


You can draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and sit him for a couple years. Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years.

Worst case Cutler sucks in his year and you go to your guy in his 2nd year.

Or Cutler leads them to a Super Bowl and you sign him and your draft pick sits for 3 or 4 years and takes over when he's 26 or so right at the same time that you draft your new prospect QB.


That only works in Green Bay. If Green Bay doesn't have Favre they don't sit Rodgers for 10 years. It may have been best though. If Cutler leads the Bears to the Super Bowl I wouldn't care if the Bears drowned their QB prospect.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:42 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
One of the more current NFL models is to build your team around a cheaper QB on a rookie deal to add flexibility to sign other players.
So you keep your drafted QB on a rookie deal to develop and pay your starter. Whats the difference if they pay the QB or pay Julius Peppers or Brandon Marshall? Sure it adds to the cap, but it is possible to pay a QB and develop one at the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:46 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Good luck fixing other holes on this team paying two quarterbacks like that. One of the more current NFL models is to build your team around a cheaper QB on a rookie deal to add flexibility to sign other players.


Kaepernick was a 2nd round guy on a 4 year/$5 mil contract. You need to start playing your guy by his 4th year to see what you have but he'll probably get time before that to the point that you should know.

Big time teams pay their QB. You should be budgeted to do so. Develop properly and you can save some $$ on the front-end of their careers and get a year or two on the cheap every so often.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:47 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If you can get Cutler on a one year Andre Dawson contract for $10 mil, go for it. But he should fire his agent.

When he turns that down, tag him.
That is incredibly rare though. In the NFL, you almost always move on from the failed starter when you draft a rookie that high. The NFL has changed. Draft a rookie and play him is pretty common.

Though, Jay Cutler on a franchise tag and a rookie attempting to take his job in camp will make some great reality television.


You can draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and sit him for a couple years. Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years.

Worst case Cutler sucks in his year and you go to your guy in his 2nd year.

Or Cutler leads them to a Super Bowl and you sign him and your draft pick sits for 3 or 4 years and takes over when he's 26 or so right at the same time that you draft your new prospect QB.


Yes, but so did countless, highly-regarded bums. I guess I'm fine with drafting a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round and keeping Cutler, if only because we know Cutler's "floor," and I'm simply not interested in moving on to a new QB without having the certainty Cutler provides at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:48 am 
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Here's my question. What other teams will be bidding against the Bears if they don't want to tag him and only want to work out a team friendly long term deal.

People say Cutler won't except anything less than 18 million per year average. What other team would give that to him and would he want to go to that team?

Raiders? Jags? Cardinals? Vikings? Bucs? Those teams need QBs. But are they gonna give him that big deal? 2 or 3 of these teams might like a QB in the draft and it would be cheaper with the cap on draft picks.

I think 10 million is low. But if they Bears gave him 14 million per, that's fair. So like 4 years at 60 million. 22 million guaranteed. That might get it done.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:50 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If you can get Cutler on a one year Andre Dawson contract for $10 mil, go for it. But he should fire his agent.

When he turns that down, tag him.
That is incredibly rare though. In the NFL, you almost always move on from the failed starter when you draft a rookie that high. The NFL has changed. Draft a rookie and play him is pretty common.

Though, Jay Cutler on a franchise tag and a rookie attempting to take his job in camp will make some great reality television.


You can draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and sit him for a couple years. Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years.

Worst case Cutler sucks in his year and you go to your guy in his 2nd year.

Or Cutler leads them to a Super Bowl and you sign him and your draft pick sits for 3 or 4 years and takes over when he's 26 or so right at the same time that you draft your new prospect QB.


Good luck fixing other holes on this team paying two quarterbacks like that. One of the more current NFL models is to build your team around a cheaper QB on a rookie deal to add flexibility to sign other players.



No it's not. Starting a good rookie QB is not a model, it's the obvious thing you do when you discover your new rookie is actually good. You're making it seem like good rookie QBs fall off trees and all the Bears have to do to solve their problems is draft one and start him immediately. It's not that simple. You're as likely to draft the next TJ Yates or Akili Smith as you are the next Rodgers or Brady.

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