Actually no - victims of abuse are victims of abuse. Please stop saying that they aren't. There are different circumstances, sure, but they are still victims in scenarios that are damn near impossible for them to get out of.

There are still no anecdotal notes of Martin participating in hazing. Haven't seen one, even in the link you texted me. I assume you haven't found any either. Would you like to read a transcript of Incognito's voicemails?

Also - the fact that the Dolphins acted the way they did should be a big red flag for the Incognito supporters.

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The Dallas Cowboy that drunkenly killed a teammate last year - name? - is he still employed in the NFL?

The WR that drunkenly killed a pedestrian - he got back in the league after he served his debt. That happens in many professions, no?

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So, the major points now seem to be.

He left an abusive situation at a major financial and personal hit.
He told someone about an abusive situation.

I'm expecting "He shouldn't dress that way" to be next.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Full disclosure, Jimmy Johnson said Martin has done the "get up and leave the table" thing this season

That's like Chris saying it.


Has anybody brought up the cam cleeland example??

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He was just trying to fit in like all the Incognitwits said he should!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Just keep ignoring facts

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I'm not ignoring it. I find it hard to blame a buy who was in an abusive situation for not standing up to the group and putting himself out there for even more abuse.

Remember, it is you who says he should have just tried to fit in, except when he was trying to fit in and then he was wrong.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I will shit in your mouth and your real mother's mouth.

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Ok I'm done. Keep thinking Martin was just some poor schmuck that never did anything wrong in this whole situation. Ill keep looking at it my way as well. The next time I'll respond in here will be when Martin retires from football due ro the intense mental stress that this game along with the Miami dolphins have caused him followed up by a lawsuit because this dude couldn't handle name calling that EVERYONE in their life has had to endure.

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Um thanks friend?

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You aren't done.

Enjoy your victim blaming though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

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-- source

So just to make sure I got this right...
The guy calling me white trash, a former cop, suggests that the solution to this would have been for Martin to commit felony assault and battery?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Wrong as usual. First off, assault involves threatening someone, I never suggested that Martin should stand up for himself by threatening someone. Battery is correct. But in order for it to rise to the level of a felony, (aggravated battery) there would be a weapon involved, which I never advocated either. In addition, most often in a case where someone was being harassed and told the person to back off and they did not and continued to harass the individual, if they wound up getting punched in the mouth, it's very likely nothing would come of it. That would likely fall under "discretionary powers" of the officer. In effect, you decide he got what he was asking for and it goes no further. Try staying in the shallow end of the pool and broach topics you might have a clue about, however few they may be.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Oh ok so you just recommended simple assault and battery. Very mature and level headed.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

For the record, I have a name to give to anyone who suggests that punching or fighting would solve this problem for Martin.

David Koschman

Maybe you most likely won't kill someone if you punch them in the face. Perhaps you will. Suggesting that this issue could be solved by assaulting someone is the single stupidest thing I've ever heard. Adults should NOT for any reason be solving their issues like that.
Only a moron would suggest that as a solution. That goes for a team owner, Ditka who we know is a fool, and Elmhurst Steve, who we also know is a fool.

What kind of example are we setting for our children by suggesting this?

That we solve conflicts with violence? Brilliant. Simply brilliant.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I would handle it in a way so that it ended immediately and did not affect the team in an adverse way, rather than harming the entire team by supplying a voicemail that would get a teammate (who was actually his best friend on the team) suspended and walk out on the team, thus leaving the team instantly without 40% of it's offensive line. I have always been a team first guy and find it hard to understand those who make up this me generation which you are no doubt a part of. Who cares ??? ......that they lost a game they should have won and will likely lose more games they otherwise might have won?? I'm sure his Dolphin teammates car, Dolphin fans care, the Dolphin owners/management care. But stupid,selfish assholes that think of themselves only, like Jonathon Martin and you, don't care. You have that in common.

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Go Cubs!!!!

That's stupid.

You know who hurt the team?

THE PEOPLE THAT CREATED THIS ATMOSPHERE!

Not the victim of the atmosphere or culture or whatever you want to call it.

Team first players, Steve, would never have treated this guy like they did.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

There are times in life (in true Ditka speak) you have a choice, whether to be a victim or stand up for yourself. Whether to have dignity or be shown a coward. Sometimes you have to stand up and fight an oppressor, whether that be in the form of a country of Nazi soldiers taking up for a tyrant bent on world domination, or a bully trying to dominate another individual, sometimes it's necessary to use violence when the tyrant is unwilling to be reasonable. It's a lesson all children should be taught. Da Coach and I are on the right side of this issue.

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Go Cubs!!!!

You're really trying to compare a guy sending off color text messages to Nazi Germany who massacred millions upon millions of people?
This is a bit right?
You're joking. You must be.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Bullshit. Teams engage in hazing commonly and it's meant to test and toughen teammates. But it has been shown that while Martin didn't mind dishing it out, he couldn't take it very well. That's really what this all boils down to.

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Go Cubs!!!!

The Hell I am. Darkside the Dipshit.....I am not comparing anything. What I am saying, is that whether a situation involves a nation or a single individual that has created an untenable situation and refuses to be reasonable with whomever they are treating wrongly, violence sometimes is the only practical alternative.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Boil this down to cause and effect. When troubleshooting a problem, you don't treat the symptom. You treat the disease.
If I'm working on a furnace that has a busted high limit switch, I don't just replace the switch. I need to know why it failed.
Why did Martin quit on his team? Did he do it for no reason whatsoever? No... he did it because he was uncomfortable with some of the goings on at the "office". What was going on there? Seems that there was a bad culture that allowed things to happen that seem to have gotten quite well out of line. Where did the culture come from?
You don't treat symptoms and run. You need to figure out why symptoms occurred. Or else you're just gonna be back out there in 6 weeks replacing another "faulty" high limit switch.

This culture started at the top.

Can we also address the fact that we don't know if A) This guy was SOFT and needed TOUGHENING up or if B) he was a 300lber who should have stood up for himself. Which is it? Was he a big tough guy who could have handled it himself or was he a pussy needing to toughen up? Can't have it both ways...

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

What do you mean you're not comparing it to Nazi Germany?
You totally posted it!

Murdering Millions upon Millions requires a just and violent response.
Being name called and teased does not. And there is so much space between those two events that you're way out of line for even putting them in the same post. Just downright silly.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Hey guys, remember when Elmhurst Steve disagreed with this nomination in the first few pages?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There was no real comparison. I was saying that whether it's a national/international threat that needs to be put down, or simply an individual bent on dominating an individual and making that person's life miserable, standing up against such a foe is the right thing to do and sometimes violence is a just solution.

Boilermaker Rick-yes I did disagree with the nomination BEFORE more information came out and it was discovered that Martin took place in hazing as well as being hazed and that his best friend (who he obviously had no problem turning against) was Incognito and that he actually was in no fear for his safety or the safety of his family. The initial reports painted a very different story than what we know now does. So as more information became available, I did change my mind quite significantly about this situation. I maintain that Incognito, other Dolphin teammates, Dolphin management and Coaches all share blame in this saga. But Martin was no innocent victim and at this point I believe what he did was worse than what anyone else did.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Sure can have it both ways in this situation. Martin is a big (330, not just 300 pounds) strong guy. But he's mentally soft and weak. That's why he could dish it out when it came to hazing, but couldn't take it. That's why he didn't stand up for himself and instead went and ratted out his teammates and even then had someone else do it for him.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Oh my God.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Did we ever get a clear answer whether Martin was "dishing out" any of this hazing?
All I heard of was the puppy text message to Incognito.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014