In America, we treat our veterans and active duty soldiers quite poorly. If we didn't, then these types of things wouldn't be needed or effective. The reason it has the emotional appeal that it does is because deep down we know that they are treated poorly and it is a way to make a small difference. Not only are they subjected to low pay, and poor healthcare, but you also have people who consider anyone in the military to be "too dumb or poor to do anything else".

Like I implied, glorification of war, military, violence runs counter to my moral fabric. Especially the way those guys are treated when they get back. "Oh, a little PTSD? Try a couple of these pills."

Brain washing little kids to think this is some great thing to go kill people so our international businesses can maintain profits. Disgusting in my book.

Do you guys know or are you close with anybody enlisted? Or vets?

But being a veteran can be very different things.

Both of my grandfathers were vets. They were about 10 years difference in age. One was on Omaha Beach the other never left the US and just had a bunch of drinking stories. Our culture typically puts them on the same level. They both volunteered and both served the same amount of time. I would only call one of them a hero though and my WWII grandfather would be the first to scoff at being called such a thing.

I don't think that's what they are doing though.

I don't think it's that far off. Eisenhower had it right, late, but right in 1960.

Funny thing is that one of my grandfathers was @ Omaha Beach as well & would have the exact same reaction. Hell, he wouldn't talk about it until about 5 years ago.

If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.

Our hotel smelled like dead hooker vagina (before you ask I had gotten a detailed description from beardown)

I've always been interested in history and as a teenager I would try to talk to my grandfather about the war and he always would deflect the questions. About 2 or 3 years before he died he started to talk a little bit more about it. Never with an overt pride, more of a resigned sadness. It was like he knew he was getting older and that if he didnt talk about it soon he would never get the chance.

The Military is a HUGE sponsor of the NFL.

So when FOX sends their pregame crew to an Afghanistan base, that's not just the guys going down there to boost moral and celebrate them. That's not FOX saying let's do this out of the goodness of our hearts. The Military requests that of them as part of their partnership. It's a one hour recruitment commercial.

It works. No doubt. Kids see a bunch of smiling guys, hanging out, getting worshiped by Bradshaw, Howie and Jimmy. Looks cool. Looks fun.

Now, the military won't let the pregame show go to Walter Reed Military Hospital to celebrate the guys coming back without limbs. That would probably hurt recruitment.

I don't know if the corporations are sincere but I'd think the people are. I am. They do and endure things I could never do.

We have almost the exact same experiences here. As a result, I haven't brought it up to him in a couple of years.

I can tell my own sons his descriptions of death and the English Channel water running red.

If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You have been able to handle life without modern conveniences like electricity like a champion.

Yeah that was his lasting image too, the surf and the sand just totally red.

Was your Grandfather in the 29th?

Blackhawks do something with wounded soldiers every year.

I don't know if the corporations are sincere but I'd think the people are. I am. They do and endure things I could never do.

So with Breast Cancer Awareness out of the way, the NFL shifted feel-good themes last week to honor Veterans Day with a "Salute to Service." They rolled out commemorative footballs and a special camo-pattern ribbon, and the announcers thanked the troops, and @NFL tweeted out large-scale tributes to military personnel like this one:

Happy Veterans Day, to all those who serve and sacrifice. Words cannot properly express our gratitude. pic.twitter.com/zQ9QO3PyoL

— NFL (@nfl) November 11, 2013
The league gives $300 to military charities for every point scored during 32 designated "Salute to Service" games in November (for a total donation thus far of $228,900). The NFL says it donated $800,000 in all last year. And that's all very nice. Like everyone else, I love the troops, I am grateful for the insane sacrifices they have made on behalf of the country, and I feel eternally inadequate for not doing MORE to support them and for not pitching into wartime efforts that are conducted, in theory, to my direct benefit. I'm the suburban coward who gets to blissfully ignore the tumult across the world while playing Candy Crush or whatever, and I'm for anything that helps get the troops money and/or added recognition.

But come on now: That $800,000 donation is essentially the world's cheapest licensing agreement, giving the league carte blanche to integrate armed forces branding into its website, its TV broadcasts, its apparel. For that small sum, the NFL gets to lease the goodwill and critic-proofing armor of the American military.

The league and the military have achieved such perfect symbiosis at this point that we don't even bat an eye at promotions like this. You know what I'm talking about: the hardass coaches who plot out offensive schemes as if they were executing troop movements along the Somme; the sportswriters and broadcasters who use war metaphors for football; the politicians who use football metaphors for war (the briefcase full of nuclear launch codes was at one time known as "the football"); the commissioners who trip all over their dicks to score photo ops with military higher-ups. We're so used to this stuff that we don't realize how crass it can be. It's one thing for individuals like Tom Coughlin to sacrifice their time and maybe a little of their personal safety to visit the troops overseas. That's a pretty cool gesture. But SALUTE TO SERVICE? That's horseshit. That's an ad campaign. That's a cheap way for the league to position itself as a kind of unofficial sixth branch of the military.

Any time the NFL slaps a camo ribbon on their unis, any time Fox cuts to a bunch of happy veterans watching a Thanksgiving Day game from the armpit of Afghanistan, that's the league doing its best to imbue itself with moral authority on a national scale. It helps portray the league as some kind of noble civic endeavor when it's actually just an entertainment venture and moneymaking apparatus designed to rake in billions of dollars and fuck your town out of stadium money. The Falcons, to take one example, managed to euchre $200 million out of taxpayers for their new stadium. One stroke of a pen, and Arthur Blank has an extra $200 million to put Sicilian marble in his luxury box shitters. Compare that to the $800,000 the league donated last year. That $800,000 helps buy the American flag the Falcons and other teams get to hide behind any time you start to wonder if the league really does have the public's interests at heart.

There's always been a marriage of convenience between corporate America and the nonprofit entities that they occasionally champion. If you toss a ribbon on a box of cereal and that increases sales and brings in donations, everyone wins! And in this case, the image-laundering works both ways. The military, in addition to the promotional force of the NFL and its captive audience of military-age men, etc., gets the best, most sanitized version of itself beamed out to the country. You see all the manly rah-rah shit at the stadium, and you see the troops smiling via closed-circuit cameras from far away, and you kind of get the impression that HEY, EVERYTHING IS OK!

Which, of course, is a lie. There is trauma and stress and death and rape and lifelong injuries and the very real consequences of armed conflict, which you will never ever see during an NFL telecast. All you'll see is the marketing equivalent of Roger Goodell walking into a Native American protest meeting, saying the word PRIDE, and then waltzing out. The NFL itself is a sanitized version of warfare—it is SOLD that way—and that superficial treatment extends all the way to the actual war participants the league trots out during the singing of the anthem. That's just the nature of the transaction. The military gets the NFL's audience, its unique hold on mass culture; the NFL gets the flags and bunting. Everyone wins. Everything is OK. Right?

Congrats on being better than me, Psycory.

Now, the military won't let the pregame show go to Walter Reed Military Hospital to celebrate the guys coming back without limbs. That would probably hurt recruitment.

The future holds the possibility to be great or terrible, and since it has not yet occurred it remains simultaneously both.

The Blackhawks just went to Walter Reed, and Pat Foley has talked about playing a pickup game with veteran amputees, but then the NHL and the Hawks don't have the same relationship with the military that the NFL does.

Do you guys know or are you close with anybody enlisted? Or vets?

That's great. I'm not saying nobody has good intentions. But the Military/NFL/FOX have another agenda in what they do. It's a recruitment operation under the guise of "Support and honor" the troops. That's all I'm saying.

My father in law won't talk about Vietnam. Hates the subject.

I find the daily tributes to be pandering. Most vets I know want nothing to do with them. Hell, I was at a Sox game with the FIL last season, and he wouldn't even applaud during their pandering moment.

I think the continuous "Thank you for your service" comments and applause don't sound remotely sincere, and ultimately don't honor a damn thing. People just respond to them out of reflex at this point. At least the Blackhawks get it out of the way during the anthem when you're standing anyway.

singing the Star Spangled Banner is some bullshit too.