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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:16 pm 
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Baseball Prospectus came out with their White Sox list today.

Since it is a pay site I will only list the Top 10 amd what BP calls their Realistc Role...there is a lot more behind the paywall for each prospect



1.RHP Erik Johnson.... no. 4 starter
2.SS Tim Anderson.... utility/below average major leaguer
3.RF Courtney Hawkins... below-average major leaguer
4.RHP Chris Beck... no. 5 starter
5.RHP Tyler Danish... late-innings reliever (setup)
6.SS Marcus Semien... utility player/platoon
7.2B Carlos Sanchez... utility player
8.2B Micah Johnson... second-division player
9.CF Trayce Thompson... bench outfielder
10.RHP Francellis Montas... up/down type; middle relief

Overall they say they like the 2013 draft and feel the system looks better today then it did a year ago. Particularly Anderson and Danish.


I am sure we will hear more when BA posts their list as a comp.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:55 pm 
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The one pitcher in the organization projects to be a No. 4?

Not a good sign.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:17 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
The one pitcher in the organization projects to be a No. 4?

Not a good sign.



If it actually meant a goddamned thing that might be true.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:30 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
The one pitcher in the organization projects to be a No. 4?

Not a good sign.



If it actually meant a goddamned thing that might be true.

For the Sox sake we better hope the whole list is meaningless.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:57 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
The one pitcher in the organization projects to be a No. 4?

Not a good sign.



If it actually meant a goddamned thing that might be true.

For the Sox sake we better hope the whole list is meaningless.


Well, do you really think every single guy in the entire system will turn out to be a "below average major leaguer" at best? So right there, the list defies credibility. Baseball Prospectus is better off trying to sell the silly idea that Baez is better than Castro.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:25 pm 
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Fangraphs Marc Hulet checks in with his views on the Sox Top Prospects with this disclaimer

I don’t pretend to be a scout or an expert of any kind. I offer what I consider to be an educated opinion and I also try to write my pieces for all readers — the diehard and the casual fans alike. The prospect team compiled from FanGraphs and RotoGraphs is not trying to be a scouting service, or impress a front office enough to offer us jobs. We don’t pretend to be as skilled as a veteran scout with 30 years of experience navigating the back fields and shelling peanuts from the stands.

In terms of high-ceiling talent and depth, the White Sox minor league system has been a bottom-feeder for a while now as former General Manager Kenny Williams focused on improving the big-league product through free agency and via the trade route, oftening flipping multi-prospect packages for veterans. The club also had unprecedented bad luck with first round draft picks for an 18-year stretch, beginning in 1991 — right after four amazing years that saw the club nab Jack McDowell, Robin Ventura, Frank Thomas, and Alex Fernandez.

Undetered, though, members of both the player development and scouting staffs worked diligiently to infuse the system with new talent and polish existing skills. The hard work is beginning to pay off and the Sox now boast an up-and-coming system.


#1 Erik Johnson | 55/MLB (P)
Age IP K/9 BB/9 GB% ERA FIP xFIP RA9-WAR WAR
23 27.2 5.86 3.58 46.4 % 3.25 5.40 4.73 0.1 -0.1
The Year in Review: Johnson, 23, made 29 starts across three levels of organized ball in 2013 and solidified his standing as the top prospect in the Sox system. He opened the year in Double-A and then made a stop in Triple-A before he finished the year with five starts in the Majors. In total, he was just shy of the 170-inning mark — a significant increase over the 92.1 innings he pitched in 2012.

The Scouting Report: A former second round draft pick (2011), Johnson has a strong, durable frame that should allow him to pitch more than 200 innings on an annual basis in the Majors. He works comfortably in the low-90s with his fastball and backs that up with two breaking balls. His slider is a step ahead of the curveball at this point and his changeup is a distant fourth pitch.

The Year Ahead: The White Sox could feature one of the youngest starting pitching staffs in the American League in 2014 and Johnson’s strong finish to the ’13 campaign should bathe him in a favorable light at the beginning of spring training. He could, in fact, open the year as the club’s No. 3 or 4 starter, depending on how the front office approaches the offseason free agent and trade markets.

Career Outlook: As mentioned, Johnson has all the makings of an innings-eater and should top out as a solid, but unspectacular, mid-rotation starter. The club should get plenty of use out of the hurler into his late 20s and during his peak seasons.

The Quote: “Fastball command is essential in pitching with success at the Major League level. If he masters that, he will be a good one.”


#2 Courtney Hawkins | 55/A+ (OF)
Age PA H 2B HR BB SO SB AVG OBP SLG wOBA
19 425 68 16 19 29 160 10 .178 .249 .384 .288
The Year in Review: The organization was shockingly aggressive with the first pick of the 2012 draft by assigning him to High-A ball in April despite the fact he was still a teenager (19) with just 59 games of pro experience. Things went horribly wrong for Hawkins and he hit just .178 with 160 strikeouts (and just 29 walks) in 103 games. He was overmatched in just about every aspect of the game.

The Scouting Report: Hawkins has decent maturity for his age and good makeup, which helps give him a chance to bounce back from the dismal showing in 2013. He may never produce high batting averages but his above-average bat speed should allow him to cut down on his swing and still produce enough power to produce .200+ isolated slugging rates at the Major League level. The young hitter is athletic for his size (6-3, 220), can hold his own at all three outfield positions and possesses plus arm strength.

The Year Ahead: Hawkins needs an opportunity to get his feet back under him and that should necessitate a return engagement to High-A ball as a demotion to Low-A could damage the psyche even further. The inexperienced hitter needs a chance to improve his pitch recognition and adjust his approach. Expect him to spend the entire season in A-ball and the production of league-average numbers would be considered a huge improvement.

Career Outlook: The struggles from 2013 have definitely slowed down Hawkins’ timetable and he likely won’t reach the Majors until late 2016 at the earliest. He still has a chance to be an impact bat at the big league level but young players such as Avisail Garcia and potential veteran imports will have to keep the young hitter’s right-field spot warm.

The Quote: “Once he shortens his swing and learns to use the hole field, I think we will have something special. He has a tremendous upside just because of his offensive potential.”


#3 Jose Dariel Abreu | 60/DNP
The Year in Review: Abreu didn’t spend much time on the field but he had an eventful year nonetheless. The well-documented success of Cuban import Yasiel Puig in Los Angeles blew up the market which allowed Abreu to secure a six-year, $68 million Major League contract. He joins a growing Cuban contingent in the Chicago clubhouse.

The Scouting Report: Much like with Puig, reports and opinions on Abreu are all over the map although he was more accessible to the scouting community. He generates plus, right-handed pop to all fields thanks to his strong frame but he’ll have to prove his aptitude for hitting the curveball and staying back on off-speed pitches. Defensively, he’s considered a decent fielder around the first base bag.

The Year Ahead: I’m told by a contact that Abreu is viewed by the Sox as an MLB-ready player. As such, the hope is that he’ll join fellow Cuban natives Alexei Ramirez and Dayan Viciedo in the regular lineup, taking over first base for veteran Paul Konerko who has spent the past 15 seasons playing for the Sox.

Career Outlook: Scouting Cuban defectors is by no means an exact science and it will be some time before we have a good grasp on Abreu’s true talent level. His power tool is considered to be plus but he lacks another eye-catching tool.


#4 Marcus Semien | 55/MLB (3B)
Age PA BB% K% AVG OBP SLG wOBA wRC+ Off Def WAR
22 71 1.4 % 31.0 % .261 .268 .406 .291 77 -2.8 1.5 0.1
The Year in Review: Semien opened the 2013 season in near obscurity but he finished the year on the tips of the tongues of many White Sox fans. The prospect opened the year with no experience above A-ball but he finished the year in the Sox’s Major League lineup. He appeared in 158 games during the regular season — split between the Majors and the minors — but was then curiously assigned to the Arizona Fall League where he played regularly and struggled with the bat.

The Scouting Report: Semien doesn’t have loud tools but he does a little bit of everything. He hits for a solid average, has an excellent eye and has above-average speed paired with strong base-running instincts. He utilizes a nice swing and is quick to the ball with a short stroke that generates surprising pop. On defense, Semien shows solid actions but his average range and arm may be a bit shy for shortstop making second base a more realistic option.

The Year Ahead: Semien could supplant disappointing second base incumbent Gordon Beckham in 2014. The White Sox have some interesting middle infield prospects so it will be important for the young athlete to get a quick start out of the gate.

Career Outlook: The California native has a chance to be an average or better middle infielder. But there is also a chance that he’ll slide into a utility or platoon role, and a contact I spoke with lauded Semien’s versatility which makes the rookie all the more valuable to the Sox.


#5 Chris Beck | 55/AA (P)
Age G GS IP H HR K/9 BB/9 ERA FIP
22 26 26 146.2 143 11 4.85 2.76 3.07 4.14
The Year in Review: Beck, 23, opened the season in High-A ball but finished the season with five starts at the Double-A level. Hitters put a lot of balls in play against the right-hander but they had a difficult time getting it into the air. He’ll need to miss more bats (4.32 K/9 in High-A) if he’s going to take his game to the next level.

The Scouting Report: The 76th overall selection out of Georgia Southern in the 2012 amateur draft, Beck isn’t flashy but he’s durable and he gets the job done. He’s a pitch-to-contact guy that produces above-average ground-ball rates and he allowed just 11 home runs in 2013. He attacks the strike zone with a low-90s fastball and backs it up with a cutter and a changeup — both of which show flashes of becoming reliable offerings. His control is currently ahead of his command.

The Year Ahead: Beck should return to Double-A in 2014 and could see the Majors by the end of the season thanks to the unreliability of young pitching (which is expected to dominate the Sox’s rotation in the coming year). Truth be told, though, he likely won’t have a significant impact in The Show until 2015.

Career Outlook: If Beck finds a way to become more consistent with the command of his secondary offerings, he could develop into a No. 2 or 3 stater. As it stands, though, he looks more like a No. 3 or 4 innings-eater — which is still nothing to sneeze at.


#6 Tim Anderson | 55/A- (SS)
Age PA H 2B HR BB SO SB AVG OBP SLG wOBA
20 301 74 10 1 23 78 24 .277 .348 .363 .335
The Year in Review: Anderson was selected in the first round of the 2013 amateur draft by the Sox with the 17th overall selection. The junior college player was the third middle infielder selected, behind Hunter Dozier (Kansas City) and J.P. Crawford (Philadelphia). He held his own with an aggressive assignment to Low-A ball and showed off his plus speed with 24 steals in 28 attempts but he also struck out 78 times in 68 games.

The Scouting Report: Anderson swings and misses too much for a hitter that projects to be a top-of-the-order catalyst but he has just enough raw power potential to mess with his head. His quick bat and fleet feet should help him hit for a solid average if he makes the necessary adjustments alluded to in the previous sentence. Anderson’s speed could allow him to swipe 50+ bases in a single, healthy season. His defense at shortstop is a question mark due to modest arm strength but he could make his way to second base or even centre field.

The Year Ahead: The young shortstop should move up to High-A ball to open 2014 and could spend most of the season there while he works to make more consistent contact. He’ll also look to prove that he can handle shortstop on an ongoing basis. There is no rush for Anderson to develop thanks to the presence of big league incumbent shortstop Alexei Ramirez and fellow prospect Marcus Semien ahead of him.

Career Outlook: Anderson, 20, has a solid chance to at least develop into a second-division starter, if not a future all-star if he can see the hit tool jump a grade. His future projection should look a little clearer once the infield prospect spends a full season in professional baseball.


#7 Micah Johnson | 50/AA (2B)
Age PA H 2B HR BB SO SB AVG OBP SLG wOBA
22 630 175 27 7 53 103 87 .312 .373 .455 .379
The Year in Review: The stolen base numbers jump out at you immediately: 84 swipes in 110 attempts. His overall numbers were also quite impressive in Low-A ball but, at 22, he was old for the league. His statistics in High-A and Double-A were less impressive.

The Scouting Report: With power becoming more scarce in the Majors, speed is a more valuable asset and Johnson is one of the better swift-footed prospects in the minors. He’s not the fastest runner but his wheels are well-above-average and he’s a heady player, which helps him get the most out of his tool. He projects to develop into at least an average hitter for second base with a chance to be above-average. Defensively, his lack of reliable hands at the keystone could eventually push him out of the dirt and into centre field.

The Year Ahead: After a three-level sojourn in 2013, Johnson will likely spend much of the season in Double-A. He’ll look to get on base at a high clip more consistently, which will allow him to take advantage of his greatest asset – his speed. There are a number of middle infield prospects ahead of him, including Marcus Semien and Carlos Sanchez, so he should have plenty of time to polish the rougher aspects of his game.

Career Outlook: Johnson, a ninth round draft pick in 2012 out of Indiana University, could end up being a steal. As long as he keeps running he looks like a future regular either at second base or center field. If he can continue to make consistent contact and get on base at a solid clip he should profile well at the top of the lineup.


#8 Trayce Thompson | 50/AA (OF)
Age PA H 2B HR BB SO SB AVG OBP SLG wOBA
22 590 116 23 15 60 139 25 .229 .321 .383 .328
The Year in Review: Once again, Thompson failed to translate his raw (and intriguing) tools into regular success at the plate. After playing at four levels in 2012 (including the Arizona Fall League), the young outfielder spent the entire year at Double-A. He hit just .229 and struck out 139 times in 135 games.

The Scouting Report: Thompson has three above-average tools in his power, speed, and center-field defense, which is why he continues to figure prominently on top prospects lists despite disappointing numbers. His hit tool is currently below-average, he needs to improve his pitch recognition and be more consistent with his swing, which can get long. One contact I spoke to called him the best defensive outfielder in the system.

The Year Ahead: A third trip to Double-A seems in order after his disappointing 2013 season. The good news is that he’s still just 22 years old and has three option seasons remaining. Thompson needs to make more contact and just be more consistent from game to game.

Career Outlook: It’s hard to give up on the tools that Thompson possesses so he’ll continue to get plenty of opportunities to make everything click. Right now, though, it’s hard to envision him becoming an all-star-calibre player and he looks more like a future second-division starter who will produce a low batting average but with some 15-15 or 20-20 (HR-SB) seasons in toe.

The Quote: “He still has a chance to be an impact player… He needs to learn his strength as a hitter and quit giving in to pitchers by swinging at pitches out of his zone.”


#9 Scott Snodgress | 50/AA (P)
Age G GS IP H HR K/9 BB/9 ERA FIP
23 26 26 143.2 146 9 5.64 3.70 4.70 4.08
The Year in Review: Snodgress saw his strikeout rate drop three Ks per nine innings in 2013 after he made the traditionally-difficult jump from A-ball to Double-A. Despite his height advantage, his previously-impressive ground-ball rate dipped to average levels. On the plus side, the 6-6 southpaw continued to showcase his durability to 26 starts and 143.2 innings of work.

The Scouting Report: The Stanford alum has a fastball but it looks even more imposing than it is thanks to his height and long arms. He’s going to have to utilize his height better to induce a higher number of ground balls if he’s going to be more of a pitch-to-contact pitcher. His command took a step backward in 2013 and he still needs to improve both his curveball and his changeup. A contact I spoke with felt that, with enough time, both his secondary pitches could become plus offerings.

The Year Ahead: A strong spring training could help push Snodgress to Triple-A but he may need to head back to Double-A for a couple of months. The 24-year-old lefty has just three pro seasons under his belt so he doesn’t have to be added to the 40-man roster until after the 2014 season and may not make his MLB debut until 2015.

Career Outlook: A rough 2013 season has tempered the enthusiasm around Snodgress and he may top out as an innings-eating No. 4 starter. The Sox could also entertain the thought of moving him to the bullpen where he could abandon his so-so changeup and look to add a couple ticks to his fastball in shorter stints.


#10 Danny Webb | 50/MLB (P)
Age IP K/9 BB/9 GB% ERA FIP xFIP RA9-WAR WAR
23 11.1 7.94 3.18 56.3 % 3.18 2.34 3.19 0.2 0.2
The Year in Review: The Chicago White Sox and Toronto Blue Jays have matched up for a few deals in recent years. The Nestor Molina acquisition (for Sergio Santos) hasn’t gone as well as hoped but the combined loot of Webb and Myles Jaye (for Jason Frasor) could end up working out quite well. Webb, a right-hander, opened 2013 in A-ball but played at four levels and finished the season in the Majors.

The Scouting Report: Formerly a starter, Webb saw his value increase with a move to the bullpen where he improved his fastball command and his average velocity sat more firmly in the 95 mph range. He also possesses both a slider and a changeup, with the former offering being a little more developed at this point.

The Year Ahead: The White Sox have some young(-ish) pitchers established in the backend of the bullpen in Addison Reed and Nate Jones but the club loves its hard-throwing relievers so Webb has a great shot at breaking camp in the Majors. Relievers are volatile by nature and the young reliever will have to prove that his improved fastball command will stick, if not continue to improve even further.

Career Outlook: In his current state, Webb possesses the necessary pieces to develop into a high-leverage set-up man. With increased experience and some polish, he has a chance to develop into a shut-down closer. The Sox got an excellent return in their 2012 trade for veteran middle reliever Jason Frasor.

The Next Five:

11. Chris Bassitt, RHP: Bassitt became a full-time starter in 2013, his third pro season, and showed his durability by bumping his innings total to 149, more than 50 innings above his 2012 total. He’s not flashy but he could settle in as a solid No. 4 starter; Bassitt is in danger of rough numbers against left-handed hitters due to his low arm slot but he does a nice job of getting on top of his curveball that shows a solid 12-6 break.

12. Tyler Danish, RHP: The 55th overall selection in the 2013 amateur draft out of a Florida high school, Danish flashes good stuff with a low-90s sinker, potentially-plus slider and solid changeup. However, his future appears to be in the bullpen due to his modest frame and high-effort delivery.

13. Andrew Mitchell, RHP: This Texas Christian University alum isn’t as polished as a lot of high draft picks out of college but you can’t ignore his stuff. He shows mid-90s velocity and an above-average breaking ball as a starter. His numbers were modest in his pro debut due to his lack of command and control, as well as a reliable third pitch being MIA.

14. Carlos Sanchez, 2B: I had high hopes for Sanchez when the year began but he stumbled at the Triple-A level and is in danger of getting forgotten on the depth chart behind fellow middle-infield prospects Marcus Semien, Micah Johnson, and Leury Garcia. He needs to rediscover his above-average hit tool.

15. Adam Engel, OF: One of the better mid-round draft picks from 2013 (19th round), Engel left behind a disappointing college season and improved significantly as a pro. He possesses at least three plus tools in his speed, center-field defense and arm. If he continues to hit like he did in his debut, Engel could add a fourth above-average tool to his resume.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Surprised to even see Abreu on the list? Because that is one expensive prospect

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Who cares? Tell me when they arrive at the Cell to play.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:47 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Surprised to even see Abreu on the list? Because that is one expensive prospect


Because it's nonsense. A guy who is going to be starting at first is a lesser prospect than Courtney Hawkins. Why even read that crap?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:56 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Because it's nonsense. A guy who is going to be starting at first is a lesser prospect than Courtney Hawkins. Why even read that crap?


Exactly.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:52 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Surprised to even see Abreu on the list? Because that is one expensive prospect


It seems strange to me that a guy who averaged over .350 for three years wouldn't be considered a strong possibility for hitting for average. I have seen projections of him being a .240-.260 hitter.

This report also said he was adequate at first while the early reports have said he is a liability.

I'll just wait and see because the guy pretty much has to be here next year even if he is bad.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:57 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
The one pitcher in the organization projects to be a No. 4?

Not a good sign.



If it actually meant a goddamned thing that might be true.

For the Sox sake we better hope the whole list is meaningless.


Well, do you really think every single guy in the entire system will turn out to be a "below average major leaguer" at best? So right there, the list defies credibility.
Baseball Prospectus is better off trying to sell the silly idea that Baez is better than Castro.


Why does the list defy credibility? I seem to recall several top-10 cohorts in the Sox system that never amounted to anything.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:56 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Why does the list defy credibility? I seem to recall several top-10 cohorts in the Sox system that never amounted to anything.


Sure, but it's highly unlikely that every single guy in the entire system is a less than average big leaguer. I wouldn't trust Baseball Prospectus- or anyone else, for that matter- to tell me who is who though. All the prospect talk that has become such the rage sells a lot of magazines and website subscriptions, but it's really nothing more than what I would call "table talk".

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:57 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:

Why does the list defy credibility? I seem to recall several top-10 cohorts in the Sox system that never amounted to anything.


You just said why it defies credibility. Nobody knows what these guys will be. Most will bust out somebody may be a star, to say every single one is going to be a below average major leaguer is just a chicken shit projection.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:05 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Why does the list defy credibility? I seem to recall several top-10 cohorts in the Sox system that never amounted to anything.


I'm pretty sure this is the same publication that said Chris Sale is a relief pitcher and Jose Quintana and Hector Santiago were long relievers/AAAA starters.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
I'm pretty sure this is the same publication that said Chris Sale is a relief pitcher


The BP Top 11 Prospect list for 2011 was put together by a different guy.... DeKalb's own one Kevin Goldstein who has since left BP and is now pro scouting coordinator for the Houston Astros....

Sale was ranked by "Sarge" as the #1 Sox prospect in 2011

He summed him up as " He could be an upper-tier starter or shut-down closer."

Seems like KG and BP nailed that one.

He also had him ranked as the 19th best overall prospect on the BP Top 101 list for 2011...behind guys like Harper and Trout who were #1 and #2.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:20 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Why does the list defy credibility? I seem to recall several top-10 cohorts in the Sox system that never amounted to anything.


You just said why it defies credibility. Nobody knows what these guys will be. Most will bust out somebody may be a star, to say every single one is going to be a below average major leaguer is just a chicken shit projection.


No, I didn't explain why the list defies credibility at all. It's possible that this top 10 won't amount to much in the major leagues.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:23 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Why does the list defy credibility? I seem to recall several top-10 cohorts in the Sox system that never amounted to anything.


Sure, but it's highly unlikely that every single guy in the entire system is a less than average big leaguer. I wouldn't trust Baseball Prospectus- or anyone else, for that matter- to tell me who is who though. All the prospect talk that has become such the rage sells a lot of magazines and website subscriptions, but it's really nothing more than what I would call "table talk".


How many above average major league players has the Sox system produced in the past five years?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:57 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Why does the list defy credibility? I seem to recall several top-10 cohorts in the Sox system that never amounted to anything.


Sure, but it's highly unlikely that every single guy in the entire system is a less than average big leaguer. I wouldn't trust Baseball Prospectus- or anyone else, for that matter- to tell me who is who though. All the prospect talk that has become such the rage sells a lot of magazines and website subscriptions, but it's really nothing more than what I would call "table talk".


How many above average major league players has the Sox system produced in the past five years?


Probably about five or six, which I would guess is as good as most teams.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:35 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:

No, I didn't explain why the list defies credibility at all. It's possible that this top 10 won't amount to much in the major leagues.


It's possible none of them even MAKE the majors. It's possible they all wind up in the hall of fame. One thing that is highly unlikely is they ALL wind up as "below average major leaguers."

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:00 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Why does the list defy credibility? I seem to recall several top-10 cohorts in the Sox system that never amounted to anything.


Sure, but it's highly unlikely that every single guy in the entire system is a less than average big leaguer. I wouldn't trust Baseball Prospectus- or anyone else, for that matter- to tell me who is who though. All the prospect talk that has become such the rage sells a lot of magazines and website subscriptions, but it's really nothing more than what I would call "table talk".


How many above average major league players has the Sox system produced in the past five years?


Probably about five or six, which I would guess is as good as most teams.


Sabremetrically speaking an average MLB player is worth about 2.0 WAR a year.

ABOVE AVERAGE
Chris Sale 13.0 in 3 + seasons
Jose Quintana 7.7 in 2 seasons
Alexei Ramirez 15.4 in 5 seasons
John Danks 12.0 over 4 +

AVERAGE
Hector Santiago 4.5 in 2+

BELOW AVERAGE
Gordon Beckham 4.3 in 5
Alejandro De Aza 4.2 in 3 but he came from Florida
Dayan Viciedo 0.6 in 2 +
Tyler Flowers 1.6 over parts of 4

Gavin Floyd 11.8 in 4 + seasons but he wasn't really developed since he had MLB experience with Phil.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:20 pm 
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THE INQUISITOR wrote:
Sabremetrically speaking an average MLB player is worth about 2.0 WAR a year.

ABOVE AVERAGE
Chris Sale 13.0 in 3 + seasons
Jose Quintana 7.7 in 2 seasons
Alexei Ramirez 15.4 in 5 seasons
John Danks 12.0 over 4 +

AVERAGE
Hector Santiago 4.5 in 2+

BELOW AVERAGE
Gordon Beckham 4.3 in 5
Alejandro De Aza 4.2 in 3 but he came from Florida
Dayan Viciedo 0.6 in 2 +
Tyler Flowers 1.6 over parts of 4

Gavin Floyd 11.8 in 4 + seasons but he wasn't really developed since he had MLB experience with Phil.


Well, I don't think you can compare across positions that way. I would simply say there are 30 starting leftfielders in MLB. Are 15 of them better than Viciedo? If not, he's better than average.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:57 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
THE INQUISITOR wrote:
Sabremetrically speaking an average MLB player is worth about 2.0 WAR a year.

ABOVE AVERAGE
Chris Sale 13.0 in 3 + seasons
Jose Quintana 7.7 in 2 seasons
Alexei Ramirez 15.4 in 5 seasons
John Danks 12.0 over 4 +

AVERAGE
Hector Santiago 4.5 in 2+

BELOW AVERAGE
Gordon Beckham 4.3 in 5
Alejandro De Aza 4.2 in 3 but he came from Florida
Dayan Viciedo 0.6 in 2 +
Tyler Flowers 1.6 over parts of 4

Gavin Floyd 11.8 in 4 + seasons but he wasn't really developed since he had MLB experience with Phil.


Well, I don't think you can compare across positions that way. I would simply say there are 30 starting leftfielders in MLB. Are 15 of them better than Viciedo? If not, he's better than average.


Viciedo ranked 24th compared to all left fielders with 300 or more plate appearances. 32 Players met that requirement here are the TOP 30

Stats from ESPN.COM

I guess that makes him below average


RK PLAYER TEAM AB WAR
1 Starling Marte PIT 510 5.5
2 Carlos Gonzalez COL 391 5.0
3 Alex Gordon KC 633 4.2
4 Bryce Harper WSH 424 3.8
5 Matt Holliday STL 520 2.7
  Michael Brantley CLE 556 2.7
7 Justin Upton ATL 558 2.6
8 Domonic Brown PHI 496 2.5
9 Cody Ross ARI 317 2.5
10 Alfonso Soriano NYY/CHC 581 2.4
11 Carlos Quentin SD 276 2.0
12 Rajai Davis TOR 331 1.8
13 Carl Crawford LAD 435 1.7
14 Yoenis Cespedes OAK 529 1.7
15 Nate McLouth BAL 531 1.6
16 Kelly Johnson TB 366 1.3
17 Jonny Gomes BOS 312 1.2
18 Andy Dirks DET 438 1.1
19 J.B. Shuck LAA 437 0.9
20 Logan Schafer MIL 298 0.7
21 Evan Gattis ATL 354 0.6
22 Raul Ibanez SEA 454 0.4
23 Josh Willingham MIN 389 0.3
24 Dayan Viciedo CHW 441 0.1
25 Juan Pierre MIA 308 -0.1
26 Andres Torres SF 272 -0.1
27 Melky Cabrera TOR 344 -0.1
28 Lucas Duda NYM 318 -0.2
29 Vernon Wells NYY 424 -0.2
30 Oswaldo Arcia MIN 351 -0.5

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:06 am 
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THE INQUISITOR wrote:
I guess that makes him below average



It probably does, but I wouldn't lean on WAR as if it is some infallible indicator of a player's value.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Viciedo's got one more year before I totally write him off. Bad oblique strain last year. That's got to fuck you up. Maybe this new Cuban guy can mentor him a bit.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Viciedo's got one more year before I totally write him off. Bad oblique strain last year. That's got to fuck you up. Maybe this new Cuban guy can mentor him a bit.


Agreed, they can't replace everyone, and he's still young. At the same time, while he may hit a few more HR's over a full season injury free, I don't think there's much reason to expect him to get on base more.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:30 am 
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Baseball America just released the TOP 10 Sox list for 2014.

Here is the recap:

The White Sox, who contended for most of the 2012 season, opened 2013 expecting to contend again, with a payroll approaching $120 million. Instead, Chicago began a rebuilding project under first-year general manager Rick Hahn, Kenny Williams’ longtime lieutenant who ascended to the GM role when Williams was promoted to team president.
Hahn inherited an offense that collapsed despite a veteran presence. The White Sox ranked last in the American League in runs in 2013, en route to their worst record (63-99) since 1970.

With the team out of contention, Hahn started selling some of those veterans, with righthander Jake Peavy and outfielder Alex Rios as his chief bargaining chips. He turned two trades with the Red Sox, sending lefty Matt Thornton and Peavy to Boston in separate deals, and sent Rios to the Rangers for speedy utilityman Leury Garcia.
3ds_whitesox85
The Peavy trade, a three-team transaction involving the Tigers, netted an impressive haul led by outfielder Avisail Garcia.

The process also brought several White Sox farmhands to Chicago. Catcher Josh Phegley, fully healthy for the first time since being a supplemental first-round pick in 2009, dominated Triple-A before struggling for a half-season in the majors. Righty Andre Rienzo, who started for Brazil in the World Baseball Classic in March, finished a long season as the first Brazilian pitcher to reach the majors.

Former University of California teammates Marcus Semien, a second baseman, and Erik Johnson, a righthander, sped from Double-A Birmingham to the South Side.

The White Sox kept adding talent in two December trades with the Diamondbacks, adding two potential starters to the lineup for two pitchers. Lefty Hector Santiago was part of the package Chicago used to get center fielder Adam Eaton from Arizona, while they got a potential new third baseman in Matt Davidson in exchange for closer Addison Reed.

More prospects are behind them. For the first time since at least 2000, when the White Sox had the game’s No. 2 farm system, the organization has prospect depth. Birmingham, celebrating a new downtown ballpark, won the Southern League title behind playoff MVP Micah Johnson, who led the minors with 84 stolen bases and ranked sixth with 167 hits. The White Sox also liked what they saw in 2013 first-rounder Tim Anderson, who jumped to low Class A from a Mississippi junior college.

Chicago doesn’t intend to be rebuilding for long, as it spent $68 million on its top prospect, Cuban first baseman Jose Abreu. The plan is for him to replace franchise icon Paul Konerko, who will be back for at least one more season of DH, first base and mentoring duty. With pitching coach Don Cooper still in the majors, and with organization veterans Curt Hasler as roving pitching instructor and Kirk Champion as field coordinator, the White Sox are confident in their ability to develop pitching to go with Abreu and potential igniters Anderson and Johnson.

A major reason for the improved talent and depth in the White Sox system is the club’s decision to spend on scouting and player development, which is directly related to the current labor agreement. Owner Jerry Reinsdorf disdained the old draft rules and restricted his club’s spending on amateurs, and from 2007-11, Chicago spent just $18.3 million on bonuses, barely half the league average. Under the new rules, however, the White Sox have spent every penny of their signing bonus pools, and under assistant to the GM Marco Paddy, they are working hard to be a factor in Latin America.

TOP 10 PROSPECTS
1. Jose Abreu, 1b
2. Erik Johnson, rhp
3. Tim Anderson, ss
4. Matt Davidson, 3b
5. Marcus Semien, 2b/3b
6. Micah Johnson, 2b
7. Courtney Hawkins, of
8. Trayce Thompson, of
9. Chris Beck, rhp
10. Jacob May, of

BEST TOOLS
Best Hitter for Average Micah Johnson
Best Power Hitter Jose Abreu
Best Strike-Zone Discipline Marcus Semien
Fastest Baserunner Micah Johnson
Best Athlete Trayce Thompson
Best Fastball Daniel Webb
Best Curveball Scott Snodgress
Best Slider Erik Johnson
Best Changeup Chris Beck
Best Control Erik Johnson
Best Defensive Catcher Miguel Gonzalez
Best Defensive Infielder Cleuluis Rondon
Best Infield Arm Cleuluis Rondon
Best Defensive Outfielder Trayce Thompson
Best Outfield Arm Keenyn Walker


TOP 15 PLAYERS 25 AND UNDER
No Player, Pos (Age) Peak Level
1. Chris Sale, lhp (25) Majors
2. Avisail Garcia, of (22) Majors
3. Jose Quintana, lhp (25) Majors
4. Erik Johnson, rhp (24) Majors
5. Dayan Viciedo, of (25) Majors
6. Tim Anderson, ss (20) Low Class A
7. Matt Davidson, 3b (23) Majors
8. Andre Rienzo, rhp (25) Majors
9. Marcus Semien, ss/2b/3b (23) Majors
10. Micah Johnson, 2b (23) Double-A
11. Courtney Hawkins, of (20) High Class A
12. Trayce Thompson, of (23) Double-A
13. Chris Beck, rhp (23) Double-A
14. Jacob May, of (22) Low Class A
15. Tyler Danish, of (19) Low Class A

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:09 pm 
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Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo at MLBPipeline.com are out today with their TOP 100 Prospects and the White Sox did not get a whole lot of love.

70. Erik Johnson
80. Matt Davidson

The White Sox were third from the bottom in the rankings. They lead the Brewers and the Angels.The Halo's didn't place a player in the Top 100.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:20 pm 
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The Professor Jason Parks has put out Baseball Prospectus 2014 Organization rankings and the White Sox have made a BIG move up the list. Here is what Jason says:

21. Chicago White Sox

Farm System Ranking in 2013: 28

State of the System: A strong draft class and a splash in the Latin American market have given the White Sox a much needed talent infusion on the farm.

Top Prospect: Erik Johnson (67)

Breakout Candidates for 2014: Tim Anderson and Francellis Montas

Prospects on the BP 101: 2 Johnson (67) and Davidson (93)

Must-See Affiliate: High-A Winston-Salem

Prospects to See There: Tim Anderson, Courtney Hawkins, Francellis Montas, Jacob May, Chris Freudenberg, Keon Barnum

Farm System Trajectory for 2015: Up. The White Sox will lose Johnson, Davidson, Semien and Sanchez to the majors, but a strong wave of talent is forming in the lower levels, and new alpha prospect Tim Anderson is ready to emerge as a frontline talent

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