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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:29 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
So then why is he discussed as a starting QB option if he's not taking them to a Super Bowl?

Because he's the best they have right now?


If that's the best pro-McCown argument out there, then I'm done with it.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:30 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
If Dallas did the minimum and actually intercepted the three passes that were in their hands, we would be having a different discussion about Mc Cowen.

Cutler gets the benefit of shoulda picks argument being dismissed. McCouch should get that too.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:32 am 
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Josh McCown currently has a higher QB rating than Aaron Rodgers.

BUT HE THREW TWO HYPOTHETICAL INTERCEPTIONS!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:32 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
And Ditka can certainly be criticized for that. When the real players came back, they just wouldn't play for Ditka anymore.



The players were at fault too. It really blew both sides apart, wasn't good for either of them. No doubt Ditka was a butt but I don't know if he really believed what he was saying either.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:33 am 
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You know, Ozzie Guillen has had roughly the same career arc as Ditka: beloved player, championship-winning leader, could have won more than once but didn't, overstayed welcome, brutally exposed as a blowhard with his non-native team, blustering TV talking head of no consequence. But Dan and Terry see Ozzie as an American Original whose every moment should have been treasured as a sui generis of sort of telling jocks what to do. Meanwhile, Ditka is a dinosaur whose aging cult of personality is practically a threat to civilization. I don't really get what the difference is. Was it that Ditka did those commercials for Montgomery Ward's electronics department?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:35 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
And Ditka can certainly be criticized for that. When the real players came back, they just wouldn't play for Ditka anymore.



The players were at fault too. It really blew both sides apart, wasn't good for either of them. No doubt Ditka was a butt but I don't know if he really believed what he was saying either.


Not really. They went on strike. Ditka called some bums "the real Bears". All that "Us vs. Them" shit that Ditka built was never going to work again. After the strike Ditka was "Them".

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:36 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
You know, Ozzie Guillen has had roughly the same career arc as Ditka: beloved player, championship-winning leader, could have won more than once but didn't, overstayed welcome, brutally exposed as a blowhard with his non-native team, blustering TV talking head of no consequence. But Dan and Terry see Ozzie as an American Original whose every moment should have been treasured as a sui generis of sort of telling jocks what to do. Meanwhile, Ditka is a dinosaur whose aging cult of personality is practically a threat to civilization. I don't really get what the difference is. Was it that Ditka did those commercials for Montgomery Ward's electronics department?

Pretty sure Ashley Madison tried to get Guillen as a spokesman if that helps level the endorsement field with Ditka

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:37 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
So then why is he discussed as a starting QB option if he's not taking them to a Super Bowl?

Because he's the best they have right now?


If that's the best pro-McCown argument out there, then I'm done with it.

Done with what?

McCown is the best healthy QB on the Bears right now. He might be more effective in this system than the more talented Cutler.


Either way, one of two things is happening here. Either McCown is suddenly awesome or Trestman's system and players dont require a great QB

Either way, it's Curtins for Cutler


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:38 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
You know, Ozzie Guillen has had roughly the same career arc as Ditka: beloved player, championship-winning leader, could have won more than once but didn't, overstayed welcome, brutally exposed as a blowhard with his non-native team, blustering TV talking head of no consequence. But Dan and Terry see Ozzie as an American Original whose every moment should have been treasured as a sui generis of sort of telling jocks what to do. Meanwhile, Ditka is a dinosaur whose aging cult of personality is practically a threat to civilization. I don't really get what the difference is. Was it that Ditka did those commercials for Montgomery Ward's electronics department?


Very similar guys. Their type of coaching has a definite shelf life. They were beloved by the media even when they were acting like assholes. The media doesn't care if a guy is rude or nasty. They just want quotes. These two gave them that and then some. They wrote the story for the press. But eventually they started attacking the fans. You aren't going to last long when you do that.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:40 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
So then why is he discussed as a starting QB option if he's not taking them to a Super Bowl?

Because he's the best they have right now?


If that's the best pro-McCown argument out there, then I'm done with it.

Done with what?

McCown is the best healthy QB on the Bears right now. He might be more effective in this system than the more talented Cutler.


Either way, one of two things is happening here. Either McCown is suddenly awesome or Trestman's system and players dont require a great QB

Either way, it's Curtins for Cutler


C-u-r-t-a-i-n-s
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Donate your curtains today

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:49 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Not really. They went on strike. Ditka called some bums "the real Bears". All that "Us vs. Them" shit that Ditka built was never going to work again. After the strike Ditka was "Them".



To me that was always him talking. He didn't know if it would last a week or a year. I don't think he believed it and was angry at them for striking. The replacements were treated poorly, but that was his team now, that was who he'd take up for. Do I wish Ditka would have done things differently? Yeah but that wasn't him and certainly not him at the time. Ego was too big. That team lead the strike and didn't really have a strong position. Bad all around.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:51 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
The truth is, the Bears were a dead team before Ditka arrived. Their rise was immediate and meteoric. That was not just Jim Finks and Buddy Ryan.

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:53 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Not really. They went on strike. Ditka called some bums "the real Bears". All that "Us vs. Them" shit that Ditka built was never going to work again. After the strike Ditka was "Them".



To me that was always him talking. He didn't know if it would last a week or a year. I don't think he believed it and was angry at them for striking. The replacements were treated poorly, but that was his team now, that was who he'd take up for. Do I wish Ditka would have done things differently? Yeah but that wasn't him and certainly not him at the time. Ego was too big. That team lead the strike and didn't really have a strong position. Bad all around.


But that was the whole problem with Ditka. He did every commercial that came his way and scolded the players for doing a few. He fought with Halas over a few bucks and it got him traded to Philly, yet he couldn't understand his players going on strike or holding out. And now he's leading a pension drive. There's a lot of phoniness about Ditka. He's a fucking hypocrite. He always was, but after the strike the players couldn't get beyond it.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:58 am 
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So blow him off. Who gives a shit what he says? He is what he is.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:03 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
So blow him off. Who gives a shit what he says? He is what he is.


What are you talking about? What he said was everything. The entire thing Ditka is celebrated for is his talking, his big mouth, hard guy leadership, his toughness, the fire and the passion. And I'm not discounting that stuff. He came in and did it. But it sure wasn't his innovative offense or any game strategy. This isn't Bill Walsh we're talking about. Ditka coached via bluster. Once the players didn't believe him: game over.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:04 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
So then why is he discussed as a starting QB option if he's not taking them to a Super Bowl?

Because he's the best they have right now?


If that's the best pro-McCown argument out there, then I'm done with it.

rogers park bryan wrote:
Done with what?

McCown is the best healthy QB on the Bears right now. He might be more effective in this system than the more talented Cutler.


Either way, one of two things is happening here. Either McCown is suddenly awesome or Trestman's system and players dont require a great QB

Either way, it's Curtins for Cutler


Less turnovers equals more victories in the NFL.

I hope McCown stays in there until years end. Even when Cutler is healthy, McCown will still be the Bears best chance to win.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:06 am 
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Yes but you have to know what bluster to listen to and what to ignore. He will always go with what's best for him at the time. Not really crazy when you think about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:07 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
Yes but you have to know what bluster to listen to and what to ignore. He will always go with what's best for him at the time. Not really crazy when you think about it.


I'm just saying, he lost his team. That's on him as a coach. He shouldn't have invited Flutie for Thanksgiving dinner either.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:26 am 
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Haha. I think he felt a little betrayed by them too. He shoulda handled it differently though.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:27 am 
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Flutie > Tomczak. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:39 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Here's one if somebody wants to take it.

For the Dan Bernsteins of the world that say that the Ditka thing is a thing of the past that you almost feel sorry for those that still cling to it, the most popular segment your radio station has ever had and one that is STILL used on YOUR SHOW every week is based on old Orange Face ripping into your elder statesman. So, who are you crappin'?

Somebody throw in a couple $20 words and an obscure literary reference and it might get read.

somebody remind me Thursday. This is getting on the air.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:46 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Flutie > Tomczak. :lol:


No doubt. And Ditka was right about that. The way he went about it, tore apart his team. I do blame McMahon and his own insecurities for that to some degree.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
If Dallas did the minimum and actually intercepted the three passes that were in their hands, we would be having a different discussion about Mc Cowen.

Cutler gets the benefit of shoulda picks argument being dismissed. McCouch should get that too.


Does he? Didn't some national tv guy spend time breaking down each and every one of his picks and tds last year?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:14 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Not really. They went on strike. Ditka called some bums "the real Bears". All that "Us vs. Them" shit that Ditka built was never going to work again. After the strike Ditka was "Them".



To me that was always him talking. He didn't know if it would last a week or a year. I don't think he believed it and was angry at them for striking. The replacements were treated poorly, but that was his team now, that was who he'd take up for. Do I wish Ditka would have done things differently? Yeah but that wasn't him and certainly not him at the time. Ego was too big. That team lead the strike and didn't really have a strong position. Bad all around.


But that was the whole problem with Ditka. He did every commercial that came his way and scolded the players for doing a few. He fought with Halas over a few bucks and it got him traded to Philly, yet he couldn't understand his players going on strike or holding out. And now he's leading a pension drive. There's a lot of phoniness about Ditka. He's a fucking hypocrite. He always was, but after the strike the players couldn't get beyond it.


You are missing the greatest hypocrisy of the strike: here we have a guy whose bread was buttered through the work of organized labor. He manipulated public opinion by displaying his Pennsylvania coal mining roots. He had to be well versed in the importance of the union. Yet he denied others the ability to do the same. No one was calling on the coaches to embrace scab players. In fact, I believe there were a few that refused to coach and others who held them in obvious contempt (I think Buddy was one of those). Yet Ditka went unsolicited and bashed those players. Imagine that guy taking the side of Mc Caskey over Singletary, Hampton, et.al.

and despite all this, I still appreciate what he accomplished and even what he is with all his flaws

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:16 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Not really. They went on strike. Ditka called some bums "the real Bears". All that "Us vs. Them" shit that Ditka built was never going to work again. After the strike Ditka was "Them".



To me that was always him talking. He didn't know if it would last a week or a year. I don't think he believed it and was angry at them for striking. The replacements were treated poorly, but that was his team now, that was who he'd take up for. Do I wish Ditka would have done things differently? Yeah but that wasn't him and certainly not him at the time. Ego was too big. That team lead the strike and didn't really have a strong position. Bad all around.


But that was the whole problem with Ditka. He did every commercial that came his way and scolded the players for doing a few. He fought with Halas over a few bucks and it got him traded to Philly, yet he couldn't understand his players going on strike or holding out. And now he's leading a pension drive. There's a lot of phoniness about Ditka. He's a fucking hypocrite. He always was, but after the strike the players couldn't get beyond it.


You are missing the greatest hypocrisy of the strike: here we have a guy whose bread was buttered through the work of organized labor. He manipulated public opinion by displaying his Pennsylvania coal mining roots. He had to be well versed in the importance of the union. Yet he denied others the ability to do the same. No one was calling on the coaches to embrace scab players. In fact, I believe there were a few that refused to coach and others who held them in obvious contempt (I think Buddy was one of those). Yet Ditka went unsolicited and bashed those players. Imagine that guy taking the side of Mc Caskey over Singletary, Hampton, et.al.

and despite all this, I still appreciate what he accomplished and even what he is with all his flaws


I'm not missing it. That's exactly what I'm saying. He's a hypocrite. Still, I appreciate him too.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:46 pm 
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I can't believe I never did a Ditka mult, gang.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that would have been a great mult, no question about it. But we can't talk about what didn't happen.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:01 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
No Clever Moniker wrote:
The Wilbur Marshall hit on Joe Washington made him, in my mind, the most feared of all the Bears. Marshall laid out many quarterbacks with legal hits that today would draw him fines "just because." After the hit on Washington (a top 5 NFC running back) he was never the same and retired the following season. Regular Reader, no need to apologize for the way you went out to play football as this was the home of Dick Butkus and the Bears were known for being able to play defense.


Nice recap.

I think you're mixing up the Todd Bell hit on Joe Washington in '84 with Marshall's hit on Detroit QB Joe Ferguson which I think was in '86.



As usual, you are correct good doctor. Todd "Taco" Bell was the hitter.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:04 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
... but how many other teams have gone on to win a Super Bowl with their backup? I know there are a couple of instances but they are rare.


Thought I'd quote this for the edification of the McCown ALS members.


The Giants with Jeff Hostetler.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:38 am 
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No Clever Moniker wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
... but how many other teams have gone on to win a Super Bowl with their backup? I know there are a couple of instances but they are rare.


Thought I'd quote this for the edification of the McCown ALS members.


The Giants with Jeff Hostetler.


Nobody said never, it was termed 'rare' ... pointing out Hostetler does nothing other than further the 'rare instances' point.

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