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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:39 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
So Ricketts has no money to spend, but he said "Ok, give Ed Jackson 48 mill"?


Did Theo know that was a unique oppurtunity and choose to spend it on Jackson? If so, YIKES

Or did he think that was just the beginning of opening up the payroll a bit?


I don't think it's fair to look at Jackson through the prism of his atrocious 2013 season. Prior to that he was the same damn guy as Anibal Sanchez who was a lot more costly. What they paid him seemed like a reasonable rate for the type of pitcher he is and that number didn't seem likely to decline. They do have to field a big league team after all. There's grumbling now. Can you imagine how bad it would be if they tried to run with a $40 million payroll? And if they tried that, they would deserve the erosion to the season ticket base it would almost certainly cause.

I think Sanchez is better but regardless, I dont understand what led to Jackson being pretty much 100% of the free agent acquisitions.

The signing never really fit any version of the "plan"

I think when they lost Sanchez, they were at the store with money and just got the next guy


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:50 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
So Ricketts has no money to spend, but he said "Ok, give Ed Jackson 48 mill"?


Did Theo know that was a unique oppurtunity and choose to spend it on Jackson? If so, YIKES

Or did he think that was just the beginning of opening up the payroll a bit?


I don't think it's fair to look at Jackson through the prism of his atrocious 2013 season. Prior to that he was the same damn guy as Anibal Sanchez who was a lot more costly. What they paid him seemed like a reasonable rate for the type of pitcher he is and that number didn't seem likely to decline. They do have to field a big league team after all. There's grumbling now. Can you imagine how bad it would be if they tried to run with a $40 million payroll? And if they tried that, they would deserve the erosion to the season ticket base it would almost certainly cause.

I think Sanchez is better but regardless, I dont understand what led to Jackson being pretty much 100% of the free agent acquisitions.

The signing never really fit any version of the "plan"

I think when they lost Sanchez, they were at the store with money and just got the next guy


Well, I never thought Sanchez was any different than Jackson. After year one of the deals, I'm obviously wrong. But we'll see how it shakes out.

But yeah, I agree with you that it was odd that they signed that one free agent piece. (And it would have been no less odd had it been Sanchez.) My answer isn't that they shouldn't have signed Jackson ( or a guy like him), it's that they should have signed a couple more legitimate big leaguers and had a payroll at least near what a King Kong franchise like the Cubs with their premium ticket prices should.

For anyone who believed differently, this should go to show that attendance and ticket prices are unrelated to payroll.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:54 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I dont think Ricketts even has a plan. I think he got in over his head and is just scrambling and stalling hoping the development will save him from his poor decisions.
Outside of the Jackson signing, which was bizarre, every other move seems to have provided cover for what is actually going on which is the Cubs intentionally losing with a low payroll and the massive amounts of cash Ricketts is getting from it. Signing Theo bought them years. I think that was the point of Girardi too. One could even say that Jackson was an attempt at that. "See Cubs fans, we are trying, keep on showing up!".

In terms of money generation, it's actually a great plan. It's what Mitt Romney would do. Ride the profit train until it goes away. You can always invest in free agents and get competitive again when things do start to get bleak.
rogers park bryan wrote:
Mark Cuban would have them competing for a World Series by now
I think Cuban would have made every move with the goal of returning to being competitive and then expect the money to come from that.

Ricketts may end up looking like a genius if he wins the prospect lottery though. If they become the second best team in the division, I think a lot of people will question just how worth the years of losing was.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:38 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
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So are they using the money they're not spending on payroll to pay down the debt service? It was just a few years ago the payroll was around $140M and now it's around $100M. You also have to add in the large increase every team gets from revenue sharing and the monster TV/on line contract. I seriously doubt the Tribune Co/Sam Zell were writing personnel checks so where exactly is all that money going?


I would imagine the profits are going to pay down the debt which was part of the original plan. And that the new revenues were supposed to tie into payroll. Totally a guess, though.

Can't they try to work out some kind of refinance on the debt service? Pay a little less and put more towards payroll until the new revenue streams are established? They are missing out on long term opportunities to improve the big league club while their hands are tied.

I was a little off on my payroll number for this year. Right now it projects to be around $60.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:39 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If they become the second best team in the division, I think a lot of people will question just how worth the years of losing was.


I think the whole plan is bullshit. I refuse to accept that it is necessary to tank half a decade for what they are trying to achieve (and even that isn't a lock). If Ricketts was too cash poor to field a competitive MLB team, then he should not have bought the Cubs.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:15 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
If Ricketts was too cash poor to field a competitive MLB team, then he should not have bought the Cubs.

Well, it's not hiiiiiissss fault the city of Chicago won't destroy perfectly good housing stock for him or let him put up big tall billboards anywhere he wants. Some people just can't get a break!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
Agree with Bucky Chris that Theo is slowly starting to do that now.

The Cubs rebuild plan has been slowed by multiple factors
-Theo likely thought there would be slightly more money to use at this point than he's being allowed which probably directly ties to:
-The renovation is being significantly more difficult than expected. I'd vote for 200ft high walls around the outfield wall at this point and rooftops owners can f off. Shovels should have been in the ground a couple months ago and now, best case, it's winter 2014 before any work gets started.
-Horrendous timing in terms of the new TV contract. Both in terms of TV market place and the quality/revenue generating possibilities of what's going to be an awful team in 2014, again.


The Cubs in general, Ricketts on down, NEED multiple of these prospects to pan out or all good will is just going to be gone, which I can't argue against.


I think they delayed the construction because they don't have the funds to begin the reconstruction more aggressively. But the new Radio/TV contracts they work out after the 2014 season ends, will alleviate a lot of the financial concerns. The TV executives will be able to see all the outstanding young talent being developed in their farm system and understand that better seasons are just ahead and want very badly to be a part of a Chicago Cubs World Series Championship season.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
The TV executives will be able to see all the outstanding young talent being developed in their farm system and understand that better seasons are just ahead

I don't think this is a thing that happens, otherwise the Brewers would have signed a license to print money back in 2005 when they were said to have had the greatest prospect pool of all time.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Northside_Dan wrote:
I'd vote for 200ft high walls around the outfield wall at this point and rooftops owners can f off.


I'd go further than that. The City should use eminent domain to condemn an entire two square mile area around the ballpark and give it to the nice billionaire family to build Rickettsland so the Cubs have enough money to field a team that can win more than 70 games.


That sounds awfully familiar!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
The TV executives will be able to see all the outstanding young talent being developed in their farm system and understand that better seasons are just ahead

I don't think this is a thing that happens, otherwise the Brewers would have signed a license to print money back in 2005 when they were said to have had the greatest prospect pool of all time.

:lol: at Steve. C'mon man. Cubs are in trouble on their next TV deal. Not that they won't make more money then they are now. But certainly not what they planned for.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:51 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
The TV executives will be able to see all the outstanding young talent being developed in their farm system and understand that better seasons are just ahead

I don't think this is a thing that happens, otherwise the Brewers would have signed a license to print money back in 2005 when they were said to have had the greatest prospect pool of all time.

:lol: at Steve. C'mon man. Cubs are in trouble on their next TV deal. Not that they won't make more money then they are now. But certainly not what they planned for.


In trouble??

cubs radio and TV contracts are like gold....actually they are really like gold! Everyone knows they are at relative points and have tremendous upside!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:55 pm 
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What is the talk of Cubs not being able to get them off the over the air completely until 2020? The big contracts like the Dodgers got included all the games.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:05 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
The TV executives will be able to see all the outstanding young talent being developed in their farm system and understand that better seasons are just ahead

I don't think this is a thing that happens, otherwise the Brewers would have signed a license to print money back in 2005 when they were said to have had the greatest prospect pool of all time.

:lol: at Steve. C'mon man. Cubs are in trouble on their next TV deal. Not that they won't make more money then they are now. But certainly not what they planned for.


In trouble??

cubs radio and TV contracts are like gold....actually they are really like gold! Everyone knows they are at relative points and have tremendous upside!


People that compare a small market like Milwaukee to Chicago don't understand the dynamics. Those who think the struggles they have endured in recent seasons will impact the negotiations for 2015 and beyond are more short sighted than the executives who will aggressively negotiate to aquire the TV and Radio broadcast rights for Cubs games. It will be a HUGE increase.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:06 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
What is the talk of Cubs not being able to get them off the over the air completely until 2020? The big contracts like the Dodgers got included all the games.


The Cubs can opt out of the TV/radio contracts following the 2014 season.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
pittmike wrote:
What is the talk of Cubs not being able to get them off the over the air completely until 2020? The big contracts like the Dodgers got included all the games.


The Cubs can opt out of the TV/radio contracts following the 2014 season.



But the score was reporting in updates today I think, maybe yesterday, that they cannot get out of over the air games until 2020?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:18 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
pittmike wrote:
What is the talk of Cubs not being able to get them off the over the air completely until 2020? The big contracts like the Dodgers got included all the games.


The Cubs can opt out of the TV/radio contracts following the 2014 season.



But the score was reporting in updates today I think, maybe yesterday, that they cannot get out of over the air games until 2020?

The rights they can renegotiate are not for every game, as they have some games negotiated to air on CSNCH, but it will involve approximately 75 games after 2014. Later they can add the remaining games to an expanded package.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
pittmike wrote:
What is the talk of Cubs not being able to get them off the over the air completely until 2020? The big contracts like the Dodgers got included all the games.


The Cubs can opt out of the TV/radio contracts following the 2014 season.



But the score was reporting in updates today I think, maybe yesterday, that they cannot get out of over the air games until 2020?

The rights they can renegotiate are not for every game, as they have some games negotiated to air on CSNCH, but it will involve approximately 75 games after 2014. Later they can add the remaining games to an expanded package.



Ok that was my point then. The Dodgers/Mariners monster TV deals are likely for all games. Either way they will get more after 2014 then they do now.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:57 pm 
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There will be no excuses for this organization if these kids come up and can play, it will put huge pressure on them right away. Mostly from the fans.

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